If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Into the Night]

So you can't prove those things aren't true?

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

More word games in an attempt to avoid an actual conversation about the topic.

You could always quit your word games.

Again, whenever you want to discuss the actual topic, I'm here.

You aren't discussing anything. Apparently you don't want to.

Until then, I am not going to be baited into your nonsense.

You can't blame your problem on me or anybody else, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

I pointed to a peer reviewed mathematical theorem published by esteemed theoretical physicists showing that an expanding universe cannot extend infinitely back into the past.

Math does not use consensus.
How do you know the Universe is expanding? There is no known boundary to the Universe.

We are not going to place obscure internet poster IntoTheNight's hasty guesswork on the same par.

What 'guesswork'??? Void argument fallacy. Bulverism fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Never, according to Christians.

You are still locked in this paradox.

The theological claim is that something that creates space, matter, and time by necessity and by logic is outside of time and therefore eternal.

You are still locked in this paradox.

 

[Into the Night]

Incorrect, existing independent of time is not incoherent. Photons do not experience time.

Photons are not sentient.

To them, the beginning of the universe up to now was instantaneous.

A photon is not the Universe. Why do you thing a search engine has to do with anything??

(Let the frantic Googling commence)

Random equations mean nothing.

The mathematical laws of physics,

Science isn't math, although math is used by many theories of science.

the axioms of geometry,

Geometry is not an axiom.

and the laws of logic

Logic is not the Universe.

are independent of time.

Time exists. Deal with it.

 

[Into the Night]

Something God probably should have made sure was clarified in the Bible, right? I mean, the Bible is presented as his word and not just the ramblings of superstitious, iron age men...

Go learn with 'supersition' means. The iron age occurred long before any book of the New Testament was written. The Roman short sword was steel (and a high quality too!).

The Damascus sword was a much better sword, since the steel is layered, then hardened using an oil bath.

The Japanese Katana and other blades also used layering, but with a different technique. The hardening process was also quite unique, and also tended be a water bath.

Genesis through Exodus occurred long BEFORE the iron age.

I guess you don't know history either.

 

[Into the Night]

The claim that it is organized is an opinion.

No, it's just a hallucination.

Like I said earlier, I don't see a universe that is at all organized. It's a mess.

This part is true.

The equation you keep posting was created after the fact to explain something and even an equation looks like a mess.

The equation he keeps posting is not the Universe.

 

[Into the Night]

You ran your mouth about time dilation like you actually understood the concept,

He does.

but then you didn't even recognize the equation for time dilation, and you foolishly suggested biological matter somehow has something to do with time dilation

​

He didn't post any such equation.
ALL matter is subject to time dilation.

 

[Into the Night]

Once again, I am forced to stop here because of your word games.

Inversion fallacy. I am not playing word games. YOU ARE.

I didn't say math and science existed.

But they do.

I specifically said the rules of math and science and physics existed.

Which is why math and science exist.

NONE of it existed before Man.

Electrons were moving between levels, in the orbit around an atom, long before man knew that electrons existed and could explain the movement.

Electrons were named by Man. Electrons do not orbit anything.

 

[Into the Night]

Again, stopping right here because you are playing dumb.

No, because you have no argument left.

You must really enjoy wasting your time responding to me, given that I probably don't read half of your posts because you inject your stupidity into them almost immediately.

Argument of the Stone fallacy. Bulverism fallacy.

 

[IBDaMann]

Nope

Too funny! You disagree with NIST over their standard. I guess you win.

 

[Margot]

Yup. This is the standard used at the National Institute of Standards, which also operates the WWV and WWVH radio stations, marking standard frequency references tied back to the cesium clock.

GPS and other satellites are also basing their time standards on this clock.

Cell phone toweres also base their time standards on this clock.

The Network Time Protocol (NTP) traces it's standard back to this clock.

Too funny! You disagree with NIST over their standard. I guess you win.

Winner winner Chicken Dinner!

 

[ZenMode]

Inversion fallacy. I am not playing word games. YOU ARE.

But they do.

Which is why math and science exist.

NONE of it existed before Man.

Electrons were named by Man. Electrons do not orbit anything.

I specifically said the rules of math and science and physics existed.

Which is why math and science exist.

NONE of it existed before Man.

So, before man understood how electrons move between levels in an atom, electrons just simply didn't move and there were no laws governing their movement?

 

[Into the Night]

Which is why math and science exist.

You deny both.

NONE of it existed before Man.

So, before man understood how electrons move between levels in an atom, electrons just simply didn't move and there were no laws governing their movement?

There are still no laws governing their movement. No theory of science governs anything.

 

[ZenMode]

You deny both.

There are still no laws governing their movement. No theory of science governs anything.

More word games.....

We know they move in specific ways,not randomly and they made those specific movements before man was able to understand why they moved how they do, right?

 

[IBDaMann]

More word games.....

We know they move in specific ways,not randomly

Are you going on the record officially denying all the randomness all throughout the universe?

 

[ZenMode]

Are you going on the record officially denying all the randomness all throughout the universe?

That comment is too ridiculous to be anything but trolling.

 

[Cypress]

That comment is too ridiculous to be anything but trolling.

He's a bad faith poster.

There would be no point in doing science if the universe, or large parts of it, were massively random.

The pivotal assumptions underlying science are that nature is intelligible and predictable.

 

[Cypress]

Of course. All of the rules of math, physics and every other science existed long before man. The fact that humans are literally made of nothing but stardust was true before man even knew what a star was.

And, again, we don't know how, when or if everything we know was intentionally brought into existence, hence the god of the gaps. We don't know, so lots of humans like to plug their deity into the equation to explain it.

You argue that it's "reason" to plug in a deity. I argue that it's human nature, as is evidenced by the fact that man has been doing it for thousands of years.

The bottom line is that if the universe were as disorganized and chaotic as you insinuated, we wouldn't even be doing science.

The foundational assumptions underlying science are that the universe is intelligible and predictable. So far, those have turned out to be reliable assumptions.

We live in a rational and intelligible universe which seems to be based on mathematical principles.

I have never seen the rational come from the irrational, nor the intelligible come from the unintelligible, nor seen something come from nothing. And I have never seen an atheist make a convincing case for how these miracles could have occurred.



Edit for spelling

 

[Cypress]

How do you know your dog isn't religious?

^^ Cuckoo for cocoa puffs