Jake Starkey
Verified User
CHRIS ROCK
Life's little contradiction
- Thread starter Taichiliberal
- Start date
CHRIS ROCK
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
So, you're fine with government doing perpetual welfare with no strings attached to get it hum?
Libhater
Verified User
And it's more than just big govt handing over tax payers money to a broken welfare system,
but it also has to do with the money laundering fraud that is being used all across the country,
but in a clear case in Minneapolis where Dem politicians and their Salami residents are making
millions of dollars off of their criminal enterprise that so far has netted them some $6 billion dollars.
Time and again it has been demonstrated that giving assistance to people "with no strings attached" provides the support that enables them to be productive citizens. For most of us, the desire to produce is stronger than the desire to goldbrick.
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Jake Starkey
Verified User
I see requirements to meet assistance as necessary. That is not 'no strings' attached.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Here we go again with your insipid stubbornness. Once more for the cheap seats (from my original link):1. A viral image said that Henry Ford, not unions, created the eight-hour work day and the five-day work week.
Ford does deserve credit for adopting shorter working shifts, but he was hardly the first employer to do this, and the now-standard working schedule did not become federal law -- and thus a right for all workers -- until almost a quarter-century after Ford’s move. Meanwhile, experts said, unions do deserve credit for keeping the working-hours issue alive, at significant personal sacrifice, for 70 years.
The claim contains some element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression, so we rate it Mostly False.
2. Your stubbornness meshes with willful ignorance. Only a fool would state that periodic "borrowing" doesn't affect the bottom line of allotted cash reserve, especially when you factor in cost of living and projected expenditures for the programs you are borrowing for. Your statement is a lie born of either dishonesty or a poor reading comprehension. THINK, gumby, THINK. The core income for SSI is from the (wait for it) WORKERS. That's what the 1099 form for new employees is about. If Wall St. investments are not up to snuff one year, you have a scrambling to compensate. Borrowing money to cover other gov't projects or programs adds to the problem. Capice'? If not, re-read the explanations in the links I provided.
3. So you put forth a false premise that has NOTHING to do with what I previously stated or what Sanders put forth in his link. The honest reader follows the chronology of the posts and catches your dishonest dodges and misrepresentations. But in just in case you are genuinely stupid, I'll dumb it down for you; My original point was that the reason Social Security is "in trouble" (not really, but the GOP has convinced idiots like you it is) is due to numerous administrations of both parties using it as a auxiliary bank when they shouldn't have. And guess what gumby? Had SocSec been tied to private enterprises like you rave about....THE RECIPIENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN SCREWED DURING THE WALL ST. DEBACLE AND THE S&L SCANDALS in the early 2000's. Got that gumby? Or are you going to deny that reality?
4. Here's a little insight as to what was cooking in Germany prior to WW1 and subsequent Treaty of Versailles: www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Germany/Germany-from-1871-to-1918
5. The difference being that you couch everything in the "I hate leftist/progressives who are the root of all problems" when the historical, fact based evidence clearly shows that it is not ... case in point the fascist regime of Franco, which hunted down socialist, communist, etc.
6. Your opinion is worthless. The chronology of the posts clearly shows the OP and my subsequent clarifications. YOU stupidly keep trying allude to it pertaining only to liberals, leftists and progressives. You're all over the place trying to insure that contention, but all you've ended up with is stubborn repetition, convoluted "logic" and basic denial. Now you'll do just the same in your next post, throwing in some new allegations that essentially boil down to the SOS. So unless you've got something better, I'd say we're done here, and will move.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
1. You have a reading comprehension problem. Either that or a mental problem that keeps you professing revisionism: Posts #119 and #146, focus on parts referring to Ford and work hours.
2. Projection on your part.
3. When will you learn that your personal beliefs, ideals and revisionist clap trap can't smoke cover historical facts? Again, Posts #119 and #146.
4.See #3.
5. All one has to do is look at the historical FACTS I linked to, which recount what failed various governments WHOSE ECONOMIES WERE CAPITALIST. YOU can't except that, so you ignore it and focus on the failures of the socialist changes (which is acknowledged in the links I provided. The chronology of the posts and your silly assed feigned confusion will always be your undoing.
6. You keep squawking "socialism doesn't work", yet Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland would disagree. And don't forget, without SOME socialism, you wouldn't have highways, food and water standards, etc., etc. Also England and Canada seem to be doing no worse or better than other industrialized nations with their socialized health care.
BUT YOU JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH EDUCATION THE PEDIGREED THE LEADERSHIP OF YOUR GOP GOV'T AND IT'S CORPORATE SUPPORTERS HAVE, THEY ARE IMMORAL PEOPLE .... JUST LIKE YOU'LL FIND IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. So GTFU and deal with it. Unless you've got a new point of discussion regarding the OP, I'd say we're done here and will move on.
2.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
I swear TA has to be drunk or high to be that stupid.So people who follow Christ's command to feed, clothe, heal, visit (in prison) the poor are going to Hell? Who died and left you the Almighty?
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Posts #40 and #43. Deal with it.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Actually, time and again, endless public assistance with no strings attached, has proven an grossly expensive failure. It produces people that won't work or be productive simply because they don't have to be. It also produces criminals who have no reason to not commit crimes.
The Cruel Reality of Public Assistance Programs
I tried to overhaul a system meant to help people in need, but it was designed to fail.
thereader.mitpress.mit.edu
Free money, less income: study finds no-strings cash leaves the poor worse off
A $36 million project found a universal basic income left recipients with less money.
nypost.com
Universal Basic Income would cost taxpayers $3.8T per year: study
Well, the money has to come from somewhere! Doling out a Universal Basic Income of $12,000 a year to every American citizen would cost taxpayers $3.8 trillion, according to a new study by investmen…
nypost.com
What’s Wrong With The U.S. Welfare State?
We are spending an enormous amount of money on people at the bottom of the income ladder, but that money is doing a very poor job of meeting human needs.
www.forbes.com
Jake Starkey
Verified User
Were unions important to the 40 hr work week. If you say no, then you have no reason to be here.
OK, too much posting, and I am confused. Unions and Ford were both important to the 40 hour week.,
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
No, I don't. It you with the comprehension problem.
History shows that endless welfare results in endless poverty for those receiving it.
Name a capitalist nation that rejected socialism to make that comparison. Socialism results in higher taxes, less social mobility, less economic opportunity, and eventually an unsustainable cost.
Yes, Real Socialism Has Been Tried—And It Has Failed Every Time
Over the past 100 years or so, socialist experiments around the world unleashed a vast tide of tyranny, starvation, and mass murder on a scale never seen before in human history. Socialism was impl…
www.thecornellreview.org
Sweden ditched most of their heavy handed socialism for capitaism.
How Sweden left socialism behind
The myth of socialist Sweden persists but in fact it has left many of the policies of the 70s and 80s behind and become one of the most market-oriented societies in the world
www.cityam.com
The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State
Introduction The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State details what Sweden is—and more importantly what … Continue reading "The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State"
iea.org.uk
Same thing in Finland
The crisis of “Scandinavian Socialism” in Finland
In the public consciousness, Finland is still often associated with the fruits of the struggle of Finnish workers of the 20th century
us.politsturm.com
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Actually, time and again, endless public assistance with no strings attached, has proven an grossly expensive failure. It produces people that won't work or be productive simply because they don't have to be. It also produces criminals who have no reason to not commit crimes.
The Cruel Reality of Public Assistance Programs
I tried to overhaul a system meant to help people in need, but it was designed to fail.
Free money, less income: study finds no-strings cash leaves the poor worse off
A $36 million project found a universal basic income left recipients with less money.
Universal Basic Income would cost taxpayers $3.8T per year: study
Well, the money has to come from somewhere! Doling out a Universal Basic Income of $12,000 a year to every American citizen would cost taxpayers $3.8 trillion, according to a new study by investmen…
What’s Wrong With The U.S. Welfare State?
We are spending an enormous amount of money on people at the bottom of the income ladder, but that money is doing a very poor job of meeting human needs.
Sorry toodles, but opinion pieces from the Murdoch rag, a Forbes opinion piece by another Ph.D. right wing wonk who exalted the virtue of "free market" and abolishing gov't oversight/input while ignoring how that was working out for the average joe prior to the ACA doesn't cut it. And Baraza leaves out the little cornerstone that WITHOUT welfare (which no one stated would eradicate poverty in a capitalist system) you would have poverty on a scale pre-New Deal, and that the machinations of a system determined by corporate and inherited wealth than can outsource their labor and production whenever they want is a core/key element to national poverty. ONLY A VERY SMALL PERCENGAGE OF THOSE ON WELFARE CHOOSE TO BE THERE. The mythology that surrounds "generational" welfare depends upon ignoring who controls job opportunities, wages and educational systems.All this divergence to avoid conceding the simple point of the OP.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Ad hominem, backed by nothing.
All this divergence to avoid conceding the simple point of the OP.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Appears we are BOTH wrong here. I stand corrected, as Sweden is technically not a pure "socialist" country:No, I don't. It you with the comprehension problem.
History shows that endless welfare results in endless poverty for those receiving it.
Name a capitalist nation that rejected socialism to make that comparison. Socialism results in higher taxes, less social mobility, less economic opportunity, and eventually an unsustainable cost.
Yes, Real Socialism Has Been Tried—And It Has Failed Every Time
Over the past 100 years or so, socialist experiments around the world unleashed a vast tide of tyranny, starvation, and mass murder on a scale never seen before in human history. Socialism was impl…
Sweden ditched most of their heavy handed socialism for capitaism.
How Sweden left socialism behind
The myth of socialist Sweden persists but in fact it has left many of the policies of the 70s and 80s behind and become one of the most market-oriented societies in the world
The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State
Introduction The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State details what Sweden is—and more importantly what … Continue reading "The Mirage of Swedish Socialism: The Economic History of a Welfare State"
Same thing in Finland
The crisis of “Scandinavian Socialism” in Finland
In the public consciousness, Finland is still often associated with the fruits of the struggle of Finnish workers of the 20th century
Is Sweden socialist: Truth vs. Myth
www.scandinaviafacts.com/is-sweden-socialist/
... Sweden pursued heavy socialist policies in the 1970s–80s (e.g., nationalizations, top tax rates of 80–90%) and faced economic stagnation, capital flight (notably, IKEA relocated its headquarters), and a crisis in the 1990s. They then pivoted toward free-market reforms (deregulation, privatization, school vouchers), boosting growth and ranking Sweden 10th on the 2023 Economic Freedom Index (ahead of the U.S. at 25th). Sweden’s success today stems from capitalism with a welfare safety net, not “socialism.”
www.goodstrat.com/2025/11/08/opinion-fake-swedish-socialist-experiment/
Swedish education:
www.sweden.se/life/society/the-swedish-school-system
-------------------------
Kind of works in reverse. Some examples: Chile had a duly elected socialist Democratic leader Salvador Allende, assassinated by fascist Pinochet with the approval of the USA. Similar happened to Iran, assassinated by Shah Pahvil with direct involvement of the CIA, who trained his secret police (SAVAT).
After the fall of the USSR, Poland became a socialist democracy until Orban
BOTTOM LINE: NO CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS PERFECT. But countries that incorporated socialism to a large degree have MUCH LESS the problems for their population than countries that don't. Bottom line: you live abroad in some European country for a while, then tell the people that you'd rather wait out a cold because you don't have the cash to cover a doctor visit and diagnosis/prescription. They'll look at you like you have 2 heads.
And guess what, the USA provides the largest socialized "capitalist" country in the world regarding education and healthcare.... it's called Israel.
I'll pick this up tomorrow.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
No, I'm merely pointing out a FACT backed by the chronology of the posts. I'm not going to waste time and effort regurgitating responses to the likes of the Murdoch rag NY Post ... their articles similar to what YOU have posted here. The Forbes article contributor leaves out the points I put forth. And like I said, ONLY A VERY SMALL PERCENGAGE OF THOSE ON WELFARE CHOOSE TO BE THERE. The mythology that surrounds "generational" welfare depends upon ignoring who controls job opportunities, wages and educational systems.
That's what YOU put forth in various forms in this thread...you used those articles to support your contention. I've addressed that ideology throughout are exchanges. Going in circles for you hoping for a "got'cha" moment is a waste of time and space, given your insipid stubbornness regarding the facts that disprove your erroneous contentions.
I'll pick this up tomorrow or so.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Much of Europe was far more socialist back in the 50's to the 70's. In most nations, major industry was government owned. The tax rates were onerous. That changed in the early 80's as socialism on that level brought nations to the edge of bankruptcy.
I can remember watching a 60 minutes episode where they were interviewing this famous Swedish author. She said that the government that year told her that her income taxes amounted to 110% of her income!
In Britian, the automotive, steel, coal, aerospace, and shipbuilding industries were going bankrupt from costs and building shitty quality products few wanted. France was the same.
One thing Allende in Chile did was partially privatize the national retirement system. That is, the government started investing a portion of the funds in private companies, stocks, bonds, etc. The economy made a massive recovery almost overnight.
Bottomline: Socialism simply doesn't work. Most nations can tolerate a degree of it if it is carefully managed and not let spin out of control.
Universal government run healthcare has a lot of economic negatives. In the UK, the NHS is the nation's largest employer now and the system threatens to bankrupt the country. I had to use the military healthcare system for years. It is ponderous, slow, inefficient, but it generally does provide reasonable care in the end.
He says he's a Buddhist so apparently that means it's perfectly fine to deny indigent people food, housing, medical care because they're all lazy slackers and that's why they're poor. He believes the bullshit that there are entire generations of able-bodied American citizens who have never had a job and live solely off the backs of the taxpayers. Bet you can't guess what race he thinks they all are. *eyeroll*
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Bihh, you ain't clairvoyant.
