Jake Starkey
Verified User
You will just lie. Trump will be a bigger waster than Biden by the end of the year.
All his oligarchic friends getting richer as children go hungry and become cold.
Media and Leftists conclusion: Trump created an affordability crisis
- Thread starter Libhater
- Start date
All his oligarchic friends getting richer as children go hungry and become cold.
T.O. Goodwin
Well-known member
All I am saying is check the actual statistics and pure facts and don't listen to any rhetoric or opinion at all. Just the proofs and just the facts period. Ideology is moot stats are verifiable evidence and stand on their own.
Key Debt and Deficit Statistics
- According to the dataset maintained by U.S. Department of the Treasury, total U.S. federal debt outstanding was about US$35.46 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2024. FiscalData+1
- By the end of fiscal year 2023, reported debt was roughly US$33.17 trillion; by end of 2022 about US$30.93 trillion; and by end of 2021 about US$28.45 trillion. FiscalData
- This reflects a rough increase of US$5–7 trillion in total debt over the period from 2020 to 2024.
- The annual federal budget deficit for fiscal year 2024 was about US$1.8 trillion. CRFB+1
- That deficit level ranked among the highest in U.S. history outside of the pandemic-era years. CRFB+1
- As of late 2025, estimates place total gross federal debt around US$38.09 trillion. Joint Economic Committee+1
- According to a recent report from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB), during his full term former Donald J. Trump approved about US$8.4 trillion in new ten-year borrowing, or about US$4.8 trillion when excluding emergency pandemic-related legislation. CRFB
- In contrast, in his first three years and five months (as of mid-2024), Joseph R. Biden Jr. had approved roughly US$4.3 trillion in new ten-year borrowing, or about US$2.2 trillion excluding the major COVID-era relief bills. CRFB
- As a proportion of economic output, the gross federal debt has reached around 124 percent of GDP as of late 2024. Trading Economics+1
What These Stats Show — With No Interpretation
- Debt outstanding rose from ≈ US$28.45 trillion by end-2021 to ≈ US$35.46 trillion by end-2024 — an increase of ~US$7.0 trillion over three years. FiscalData+1
- The 2024 deficit of ~US$1.8 trillion is among the largest in U.S. peacetime history. CRFB+1
- Presidents’ legislative actions differ: under Trump, ~US$8.4 trillion in new long-term borrowing was approved over four years; under Biden, ~US$4.3 trillion over roughly 3.5 years (as of mid-2024). CRFB
- Debt-to-GDP ratio recently exceeds 120 percent. Trading Economics+1
Stats don't support your claims.
That's nice.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-outstanding/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Speculating future debt to excuse Obama's Biden disaster is intellectually dishonest.
Massive increase by Obama's Biden Junta.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-outstanding/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Under Trump it was the Covid relief funding. You are being extremely dishonest in your attempt to gaslight.
Jake Starkey
Verified User
Trump will be over 11 trillion by the end of next year.
T.O. Goodwin
Well-known member
The figures I provided are not projections, speculation, or reinterpretations. They are literal excerpts from the U.S. Treasury’s “Historical Debt Outstanding” dataset and the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget’s published analyses. You are free to disagree with my conclusions, but the numerical statements themselves are not in dispute.
The Treasury numbers you quoted back at me are exactly the ones I used.
Debt at end of FY 2021: ~28.45T
FY 2022: ~30.93T
FY 2023: ~33.17T
FY 2024: ~35.46T
Source: U.S. Treasury, FiscalData.
These are not “speculations” or “excuses”; they are the official totals. They show a ~7T rise during Biden’s term because that is what the Treasury dataset records.
The deficit figure (~1.8T for FY 2024) comes directly from CRFB.
CRFB is a non-partisan budget watchdog. Their conclusion that FY 2024 was one of the largest non-pandemic deficits is their wording, not mine. Again, this is a reported number, not an interpretation.
The 8.4T (Trump) and 4.3T (Biden) ten-year borrowing numbers are taken directly from CRFB’s comparison report.
CRFB provides both “total” and “excluding COVID relief” numbers for each president. I quoted both to avoid selective framing. These are not inventions; they are the published figures in the report I linked.
Saying that debt rose sharply during Biden’s term is simply a description of the dataset.
I did not say he “caused” all of it. I said the debt rose from ~28.45T to ~35.46T while he was in office. That is a factual, time-stamped observation. Whether one attributes that rise to inherited conditions, legislative choices, economic cycles, or global events is a separate debate.
Your claim that I am ignoring COVID relief under Trump is incorrect.
In the very same outline you are criticizing, I cited CRFB’s distinction between:
– Trump total borrowing: ~8.4T
– Trump excluding COVID: ~4.8T
– Biden total borrowing: ~4.3T
– Biden excluding COVID: ~2.2T
If anything, I went out of my way to avoid the simplistic narrative you are accusing me of using.
The dispute here is not about the numbers. The numbers come directly from the Treasury and CRFB. The disagreement is about interpretation, but you cannot dismiss the figures themselves as “dishonest” when they are reproduced exactly from the sources provided. If you want to argue causes or responsibility, that is a different conversation — but the empirical record is not in question.
My position is straightforward and fully supported by the public record. I cited the debt levels recorded by the U.S. Treasury at the start and end of Biden’s term and at the start of Trump’s current term and late 2025. I also cited CRFB’s published figures on new ten-year borrowing approved under each president. These are not projections or interpretations; they are time-stamped facts from the sources provided. My statements describe what the debt was during each presidency, not who personally “caused” each increase, which is a separate analytical question involving Congress, inherited obligations, interest, and economic conditions.
The pushback you are making assumes I was assigning full causal responsibility to one president or absolving another. I made no such claim. You are reading a narrative into the numbers that I did not assert. The data show only the debt levels over time and the borrowing approved in specific legislative periods. Any further interpretation is coming from your assumptions, not from what I actually wrote.
Althea
Althea told me...
An accurate depiction for those who choose to remember recent history. I seem to also remember (my GFwas one of the worst) that supply chains were taxed more than normal after months of bored sequestered Americans spending all day ordering from Amazon. Given that everything comes from China, warehouses were empty after months of record purchasing.
Do you agree that corporations took advantage of inflation, and simply kept hiking prices long after supply chains recovered?
America's biggest companies can't stop bragging to investors about how they're charging you more
"What we are very good at is pricing," Colgate Palmolive's CEO said last week as several companies touted their ability to pass costs to consumers.
www.businessinsider.com
Althea
Althea told me...
At the end of this reign of terror, his golfing costs to Americans will be 1/2 billion dollars. He's already nearing 100 million since January.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Yes, spending is a problem. The Chinese Disease lockdown was kind of unique as an occurrence. Much of the economic loss there was due to the lockdown rather than new spending, or at least as much so.
Biden came into office and rather than show fiscal conservativism, immediately started spending trillions in new borrowing.
Jake Starkey
Verified User
Do you agree that corporations took advantage of inflation, and simply kept hiking prices long after supply chains recovered?
America's biggest companies can't stop bragging to investors about how they're charging you more
"What we are very good at is pricing," Colgate Palmolive's CEO said last week as several companies touted their ability to pass costs to consumers.
Do you agree that we take advantage of sales and heavy inventories?
I don't think you point is valid to the discussion.
Althea
Althea told me...
I don't think you understand the topic.
Jake Starkey
Verified User
You want to twist it out of shape.
Crepitus
Verified User
LOL!!! You need to look up those big words before you try to use them.
T.O. Goodwin
Well-known member
You are responding to claims I did not make. Let me restate the point clearly so there is no misunderstanding.
I did not blame Biden’s debt increase on Trump.
I stated that some obligations were inherited because they were already enacted before January 2021. That is a structural fact of how federal budgets work. Every president inherits commitments from the previous year’s appropriations, just as Trump inherited obligations enacted before 2017.
I did acknowledge that Biden increased spending further.
I stated plainly that several trillion in additional borrowing occurred under Biden’s own policies and programs. That is directly supported by CRFB’s analysis of enacted legislation.
I did not excuse one president’s spending by pointing to another.
I drew a comparison between recorded debt increases during defined timeframes. That is all. Debt levels are time-stamped facts from the Treasury dataset. They show what happened, not who is morally responsible.
Your accusation that I am refusing to “accept responsibility” is misplaced.
I am not assigning moral responsibility to any administration. I am describing the empirical record: the debt was at X when one term began and Y when it ended, and the same measurements exist for Trump’s current term. Those numbers do not come with partisan meaning attached; they simply record reality.
You are interpreting my description of the facts as a defense of one party or an attack on another. That interpretation is coming from you, not from anything I wrote. My statements refer only to the publicly documented debt levels and the published analyses of enacted borrowing. The political narrative you are assigning to them is not part of my argument.
T.O. Goodwin
Well-known member
You asked whether corporations took advantage of inflation and continued raising prices even after supply chains normalized. The evidence from multiple sectors indicates that this did happen to a measurable degree. During 2021–2023, companies in energy, food processing, transportation, and consumer goods publicly reported record margins at the same time that their input costs were stabilizing. Federal Reserve analyses, Census Bureau profit data, and industry earnings reports all showed that a portion of price growth came not from ongoing supply shocks, but from firms maintaining higher markups once consumers had accepted the elevated price levels created during the disruption period.An accurate depiction for those who choose to remember recent history. I seem to also remember (my GFwas one of the worst) that supply chains were taxed more than normal after months of bored sequestered Americans spending all day ordering from Amazon. Given that everything comes from China, warehouses were empty after months of record purchasing.
Do you agree that corporations took advantage of inflation, and simply kept hiking prices long after supply chains recovered?
America's biggest companies can't stop bragging to investors about how they're charging you more
"What we are very good at is pricing," Colgate Palmolive's CEO said last week as several companies touted their ability to pass costs to consumers.
This does not replace the structural causes I already described—pandemic shutdown effects, supply chain failures, stimulus-driven demand, and the global energy shock from the Ukraine war. Those were the primary drivers of the initial surge. But after those pressures eased, parts of the corporate sector kept prices higher than pre-pandemic cost structures alone would justify. That behavior has been documented in official economic data and does not depend on partisan interpretation.
My earlier explanation was about why the inflation peak occurred when it did. This answer addresses your follow-up question about corporate behavior afterward. The two points are consistent.
Jake Starkey
Verified User
T.O. Goodwin
Well-known member
I suppose it is only right to begin by restating the original statement that started this entire exchange: “Media and Leftists conclusion: Trump created an affordability crisis.” Since that is the foundation of the discussion, I should clarify my position directly so it does not appear that I entered the conversation midway without addressing its premise. I do not accept the claim that one president, acting alone, created the affordability pressures Americans are facing. The underlying problem stretches back before Trump’s first term, continued through it, intensified during Biden’s term, and is still unfolding during Trump’s current term. Housing shortages, supply-chain fragility, structural underinvestment, wage-cost imbalances, global energy volatility, and long-standing monetary policy choices all pre-date these administrations and carried forward through each of them. The pandemic shock amplified every one of those weaknesses, and the reopening surge collided with supply constraints that had been building for years.
The affordability crisis is therefore the product of a multi-year, multi-administration sequence—not a single presidency. Any attempt to assign it to one party or one individual fails to account for the documented timeline and the structural forces that existed before, during, and after each president’s term. My aim has been to describe that broader sequence rather than reduce a complex economic arc to a partisan conclusion.
The affordability crisis is therefore the product of a multi-year, multi-administration sequence—not a single presidency. Any attempt to assign it to one party or one individual fails to account for the documented timeline and the structural forces that existed before, during, and after each president’s term. My aim has been to describe that broader sequence rather than reduce a complex economic arc to a partisan conclusion.
Inflation under Biden was due to several factors.
Supply chain problems from COVID
Post COVID recovery
The three stimulus packages, including enhanced unemployment benefits, that pumped in shit tons of money into the economy. Trump’s administration was responsible for two of those.
Let’s see those figures. Include who’s paying for it.
He just kicked your simplistic ass. Best if you just shut the fuck up and move on.
But you won’t.
100% correct.