A beginner's guide to being an atheist, by Richard Dawkins

[Dutch Uncle]

Didn’t watch the reference I provided, did you?

^^^
Always runs from my questions, yet expects me to answer his. Weird!

This link supports my theory that atheists who believe "when you're dead, you're dead" are atypical humans and are missing something in their genetics just like a person who is color blind or hemophilic.

Humans 'predisposed' to believe in gods and the afterlife

New research finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife. Research suggests that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural...

www.sciencedaily.com

New research finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife. Research suggests that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body....

... 'This project suggests that religion is not just something for a peculiar few to do on Sundays instead of playing golf. We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies. This suggests that attempts to suppress religion are likely to be short-lived as human thought seems to be rooted to religious concepts, such as the existence of supernatural agents or gods, and the possibility of an afterlife or pre-life.'

 

[Cypress]

QED on the anger American atheists have against Christianity.

My main theory remains that it's due to childhood trauma.

Einstein said that most of the professional atheists he knew had some traumatic experience with the church in their youth.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Right, because religion, science, economics, art, literature never evolve over a period of 3,00 years. You're a regular comedian!

He's transferring his arguments with Matt, who claims to be a Christian but never walks the walk, to anyone who disagrees with his belief that "when you're dead, you're dead". His anger issues are interesting and fascinate me just like all extremists do.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Einstein said that most of the professional atheists he knew had some traumatic experience with the church in their youth.

Most hatred and/or anger has roots in trauma. As the link below notes, it's part of our natural "fight or flight response".

“Anyone Else Angry?” The Link Between Trauma and Anger

Anger is a common and complex response in the aftermath of trauma. When it persists it can obscure grieving, loving, and connecting. Addressing anger fuels hope and recovery.

www.psychologytoday.com

Key points​

• Anger in the aftermath of traumatic events is both a common and complex response.
• Recognizing anger as a residual of our fight/flight response or a mask for depression offers healing options.
• Making connections despite our anger opens a dwelling place for our pain and grief and a way forward.

...It is to our advantage that our biological arousal system goes into survivor mode in the face of danger, causing an increase in heart rate, rapid shallow breathing, cold sweats, tingling muscular tension, and often antagonistic behavior.

The problem is that when the danger has passed, our body often remains in a state of hyperarousal, leaving us reacting with anger to what would ordinarily be mildly distressing stimuli.

• We blow up or are irritated by anyone asking if things are starting to get easier.
• We impatiently wait in line or over-react if something breaks.
• We find ourselves fighting more often with our partners.
• We drive faster, yell more, and may even put ourselves and others at risk.

Trauma expert, Bessel Van Der Kolk reminds us that The Body Keeps Score. Because the anger we feel in the aftermath of trauma is related to our body’s physical response to trauma, we need to work from the body out to bring it down. Working to reduce our anger is not irrelevant to our loss or our sense of horror.

 

[Cypress]

He's transferring his arguments with Matt, who claims to be a Christian but never walks the walk, to anyone who disagrees with his belief that "when you're dead, you're dead". His anger issues are interesting and fascinate me just like all extremists do.

The militant message board atheist will invariably try to make you feel like an idiot for not accepting their faith in a strictly physical materialist worldview. The Soviet Communists went to extensive lengths to openly mock the surviving Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the USSR and tried to make them feel like idiots.

 

[Cypress]

Most hatred and/or anger has roots in trauma. As the link below notes, it's part of our natural "fight or flight response".

“Anyone Else Angry?” The Link Between Trauma and Anger

Anger is a common and complex response in the aftermath of trauma. When it persists it can obscure grieving, loving, and connecting. Addressing anger fuels hope and recovery.

www.psychologytoday.com

Key points​

• Anger in the aftermath of traumatic events is both a common and complex response.
• Recognizing anger as a residual of our fight/flight response or a mask for depression offers healing options.
• Making connections despite our anger opens a dwelling place for our pain and grief and a way forward.

...It is to our advantage that our biological arousal system goes into survivor mode in the face of danger, causing an increase in heart rate, rapid shallow breathing, cold sweats, tingling muscular tension, and often antagonistic behavior.

The problem is that when the danger has passed, our body often remains in a state of hyperarousal, leaving us reacting with anger to what would ordinarily be mildly distressing stimuli.

• We blow up or are irritated by anyone asking if things are starting to get easier.
• We impatiently wait in line or over-react if something breaks.
• We find ourselves fighting more often with our partners.
• We drive faster, yell more, and may even put ourselves and others at risk.

Trauma expert, Bessel Van Der Kolk reminds us that The Body Keeps Score. Because the anger we feel in the aftermath of trauma is related to our body’s physical response to trauma, we need to work from the body out to bring it down. Working to reduce our anger is not irrelevant to our loss or our sense of horror.

There are many asshole church leaders who abused or scared the crap out of some kids, so you can see how that would germinate a lifelong resentment against global Christianity and the New Testament

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The militant message board atheist will invariably try to make you feel like an idiot for not accepting their faith in a strictly physical materialist worldview. The Soviet Communists went to extensive lengths to openly mock the surviving Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the USSR and tried to make them feel like idiots.

In short, militant atheists are as big of bullies and emotionally involved in their views as the loudest Holy Rollers. They are two sides of the same coin. Sad.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There are many asshole church leaders who abused or scared the crap out of some kids, so you can see how that would germinate a lifelong resentment against global Christianity and the New Testament

Agreed every group has their assholes.

Most human beings outgrow such trauma. If they can't, they need help. It would take a very traumatic experience, or multiple traumatic experiences such as severe abuse, to induce PTSD.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Atheists don't proseletize.

some atheists do protolotyze.

I've found some very optimistic atheists.

I think you are confusing the Church of No God, a fundamentalist style religion, with atheism. Atheism is not a religion.

it's usually used to justify immorality.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed every group has their assholes.

Most human beings outgrow such trauma. If they can't, they need help. It would take a very traumatic experience, or multiple traumatic experiences such as severe abuse, to induce PTSD.

That's true. There are different levels of trauma.
I remember hating going to church on Sunday, because I would have rather been home watching cartoons, lol

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's true. There are different levels of trauma.
I remember hating going to church on Sunday, because I would have rather been home watching cartoons, lol

I didn't like wearing a suit. LOL Yes, the cartoons were another reason.

Agreed on different levels of trauma. In this case, what levels of trauma, on average, would cause a 40+ year old man to vehemently hate Christianity so much they spread hate and lies on anyone who disagrees with their views?

 

[Cypress]

In short, militant atheists are as big of bullies and emotionally involved in their views as the loudest Holy Rollers. They are two sides of the same coin. Sad.

When the militant atheists took control of the French Revolution, the terror they unleashed was as bad as anything practiced under Louis VI.

That said, if I was forced to choose between the atheist regime of Nikita Khrushchev or the theocratic Islamic Republic of Ayatollah Khomeini, I would have to go Red!

 

[Cypress]

I didn't like wearing a suit. LOL Yes, the cartoons were another reason.

Agreed on different levels of trauma. In this case, what levels of trauma, on average, would cause a 40+ year old man to vehemently hate Christianity so much they spread hate and lies on anyone who disagrees with their views?

It is a question that a PhD candidate in sociology could write a dissertation on.

The collapse of the Catholic church in Quebec is a test case. My cousin told me women in Quebec got sick and tired of priests harassing them to stop using birth control. But I don't know if that is enough to result in a lifelong traumatic grievance.

 

[domer76]

Right, because religion, science, economics, art, literature never evolve over a period of 3,00 years. You're a regular comedian!

Absolutely, they evolve. I recognize that. And so do the Biblical scholars.

But it’s not religion that’s evolving here. It’s their fucking god. You know. That eternal, never changing, omni-everything god. The SAME GOD, just repackaged. YAHWEH, Jehovah, LORD. That god, not the religion.

Ain’t that a kick in the pants?

 

[domer76]

^^^
Always runs from my questions, yet expects me to answer his. Weird!

This link supports my theory that atheists who believe "when you're dead, you're dead" are atypical humans and are missing something in their genetics just like a person who is color blind or hemophilic.

Humans 'predisposed' to believe in gods and the afterlife

New research finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife. Research suggests that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural...

www.sciencedaily.com

New research finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife. Research suggests that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body....

... 'This project suggests that religion is not just something for a peculiar few to do on Sundays instead of playing golf. We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies. This suggests that attempts to suppress religion are likely to be short-lived as human thought seems to be rooted to religious concepts, such as the existence of supernatural agents or gods, and the possibility of an afterlife or pre-life.'

Yep. Religion is common across cultures and societies. So are their deities, who they construct in their own image.

Now, about that woman stealing YAHWEH, who became the Christian god. Ain’t that something?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

When the militant atheists took control of the French Revolution, the terror they unleashed was as bad as anything practiced under Louis VI.

That said, if I was forced to choose between the atheist regime of Nikita Khrushchev or the theocratic Islamic Republic of Ayatollah Khomeini, I would have to go Red!

It's backlash from one set of extremists (the French Catholic hierarchy) for another set, French atheists.

Both Stalin and Mao attempted to stamp out religion and failed. Like banning anything else, all the government did was drive it underground. Better, IMO, to keep it legal and above ground while still keeping both an eye and a tight rein on it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It is a question that a PhD candidate in sociology could write a dissertation on.

The collapse of the Catholic church in Quebec is a test case. My cousin told me women in Quebec got sick and tired of priests harassing them to stop using birth control. But I don't know if that is enough to result in a lifelong traumatic grievance.

Not a lawyer, much less a Canadian, but expressing opinions is one thing while going to individuals and harassing them is another. It's one thing to protest outside a fertility clinic but another to harass the people coming and going from it.

 

[Cypress]

Absolutely, they evolve. I recognize that. And so do the Biblical scholars.

But it’s not religion that’s evolving here. It’s their fucking god. You know. That eternal, never changing, omni-everything god. The SAME GOD, just repackaged. YAHWEH, Jehovah, LORD. That god, not the religion.

Ain’t that a kick in the pants?

Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism are practically separate religions and unrecognizable from the Yahweism cult of 3,500 years ago. Rabbinic Judaism didn't exist until the second century, AD.

Buddhism and Hindiusm have undergone extreme evolutions over 3000 years as human values, understandings, and interpretations changed. For some reason, it doesn't make me angry or agitated.

But if you want to be agitated about a 3,500 year old Mesopotamian diety, that's your choice.

 

[Cypress]

It's backlash from one set of extremists (the French Catholic hierarchy) for another set, French atheists.

Both Stalin and Mao attempted to stamp out religion and failed. Like banning anything else, all the government did was drive it underground. Better, IMO, to keep it legal and above ground while still keeping both an eye and a tight rein on it.

Freedom of conscience is one of the most impressive features of the US constitutional system.

Jesus and Paul obviously never said anything about birth control pills.

My understanding is that Quebec spent most of the 20th century afraid of being overwhelmed by English speakers and losing the touchstone of their French culture. The Catholic priests were in on the plot to increase the French-speaking population by harassing women to stop using birth control. That is blatantly using the Church's authority for political and nationalistic reasons, and I can see how that pissed people off.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism are practically separate religions and unrecognizable from the Yahweism cult of 3,500 years ago. Rabbinic Judaism didn't exist until the second century, AD.

Buddhism and Hindiusm have undergone extreme evolutions over 3000 years as human values, understandings, and interpretations changed. For some reason, it doesn't make me angry or agitated.

But if you want to be agitated about a 3,500 year old Mesopotamian diety, that's your choice.

True, but they have the same roots like Islam. No doubt 4000 year old religions also have roots in older beliefs.

My interest isn't in tracing the roots of any particular religion, I'll let the fetishists do that. My interest is in why human beings have a need to believe yet a small percentage of people are blind to that need.