Democracy vs Republic -- differentiating between the two

[gfm7175]

This thread is being made for Poor Richard Saunders, who doesn't know the difference between the two separate types of government.

DEMOCRACY: This type of government stems from ancient Athens. This type of government stems from the word (demokratia), which is a combination of the words (demos) and (kratos). Demos means [people] and kratos means [power/rule]. Thus, the word 'democracy' means "rule by the people". In this form of government, citizens (men, at the time) directly vote on all proposed laws.

REPUBLIC: This type of government stems from ancient Rome. This type of government stems from the term (res publica), which means "public affair". Instead of "rule by the people", this type of government is "rule by law/constitution". In ancient Rome, this "law/constitution" was largely unwritten (except for the Twelve Tables), but it was still the foundation of the government. In ancient Rome, citizens (rather than directly voting on all proposed laws) elected representatives to vote on their behalf.


These two separate forms of government are NOT the same thing.

 

[gfm7175]

Ok. I'll bite. Name one country in the world that is a democracy based on your definition.

None currently exist.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

This thread is being made for Poor Richard Saunders, who doesn't know the difference between the two separate types of government.

DEMOCRACY: This type of government stems from ancient Athens. This type of government stems from the word (demokratia), which is a combination of the words (demos) and (kratos). Demos means [people] and kratos means [power/rule]. Thus, the word 'democracy' means "rule by the people". In this form of government, citizens (men, at the time) directly vote on all proposed laws.

REPUBLIC: This type of government stems from ancient Rome. This type of government stems from the term (res publica), which means "public affair". Instead of "rule by the people", this type of government is "rule by law/constitution". In ancient Rome, this "law/constitution" was largely unwritten (except for the Twelve Tables), but it was still the foundation of the government. In ancient Rome, citizens (rather than directly voting on all proposed laws) elected representatives to vote on their behalf.


These two separate forms of government are NOT the same thing.

Everyone look at the cult member that thinks his cult leader is stupid.


"More than any country in history we’ve made gains toward a democracy that is enviable throughout the world." Donald Trump in Lacey Rose interview

"This election will determine whether we’re a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy but are in fact controlled by a small handful of global special interests rigging the system, and our system is rigged." Donald Trump to Rush Limbaugh

"This is about our democracy and the sacred rights that generations of Americans have fought, bled, and died to secure." Donald Trump

"Every time voter fraud occurs, it cancels out the vote of a lawful citizen, and undermines democracy." Donald Trump

"Nothing threatens the integrity of our Democracy more than when government officials put their public office up for sale." Donald Trump

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

This thread is being made for Poor Richard Saunders, who doesn't know the difference between the two separate types of government.

DEMOCRACY: This type of government stems from ancient Athens. This type of government stems from the word (demokratia), which is a combination of the words (demos) and (kratos). Demos means [people] and kratos means [power/rule]. Thus, the word 'democracy' means "rule by the people". In this form of government, citizens (men, at the time) directly vote on all proposed laws.

Based on your strict standard then Athens was NOT a democracy since only SOME of the people voted. In fact Athens had a sitting council that was responsible to decide what would be brought to a vote of the people.

It seems you don't even understand your own definition. By your idiotic demand that democracy can only be a society where everyone votes on every issue then there has never been an actual democracy in the history of the world. But in reality democracy means "rule by the people" which means any government where the people rule by some form of voting even if they vote for people to represent them then that would be a democracy.

If we accept that "rule by the people" is the standard for what creates a democracy can you explain the meaning of "we the people" in the preamble to the US Constitution? Does the Constitution have anything to do with "rule by the people" or not?

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[AProudLefty]

What are votes for, then?

 

[Hume]

This thread is being made for Poor Richard Saunders, who doesn't know the difference between the two separate types of government.

DEMOCRACY: This type of government stems from ancient Athens. This type of government stems from the word (demokratia), which is a combination of the words (demos) and (kratos). Demos means [people] and kratos means [power/rule]. Thus, the word 'democracy' means "rule by the people". In this form of government, citizens (men, at the time) directly vote on all proposed laws.

REPUBLIC: This type of government stems from ancient Rome. This type of government stems from the term (res publica), which means "public affair". Instead of "rule by the people", this type of government is "rule by law/constitution". In ancient Rome, this "law/constitution" was largely unwritten (except for the Twelve Tables), but it was still the foundation of the government. In ancient Rome, citizens (rather than directly voting on all proposed laws) elected representatives to vote on their behalf.


These two separate forms of government are NOT the same thing.

A republic is only a form of democracy. Something even second graders are expected to understand.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

All those leaders that don't seem to know that gfm is the smartest guy in the world when it comes to democracy. Gfm is even smarter than Turmp and that takes some work.

This democracy of ours, which sometimes we've treated so lightly, is more than ever a comfortable cloak, so let us not tear it asunder, for no man knows, once it is destroyed, where or when he will find its protective warmth again. — Ronald Reagan

Since the foundation of the State of Israel, the United States has stood by her and helped her to pursue security, peace, and economic growth. Our friendship is based on historic moral and strategic ties, as well as our shared dedication to democracy. — Ronald Reagan

We're approaching the end of a bloody century plagued by a terrible political invention, totalitarianism. Optimism comes less easily today, not because democracy is less vigorous, but because democracy's enemies have refined their instruments of repression. — Ronald Reagan
Without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. — Ronald Reagan

Good citizenship and defending democracy means living up to the ideals and values that make this country great. — Ronald Reagan
Democracy's fight against world conquest is being greatly aided, and must be more greatly aided, by the rearmament of the United States and by sending every ounce and every ton of munitions and supplies that we can possibly spare to help the defenders who are in the front lines. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

We must be the great arsenal of democracy. For us this is an emergency as serious as war itself. Franklin Delano Roosevelt


Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’
Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper-no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of the point.
Winston Churchill

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

A republic is only a form of democracy. Something even second graders are expected to understand.

Republics don't have to be democracies. There are autocratic republics.

 

[Hume]

Republics don't have to be democracies. There are autocratic republics.

Then the use of "republic" is meaningless in that case.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Then the use of "republic" is meaningless in that case.

Republic usually refers to having some form of controlling document like a Constitution and a leader that isn't a monarch.
The Republic of China is a republic but it's autocratic.

 

[Hume]

Republic usually refers to having some form of controlling document like a Constitution and a leader that isn't a monarch.
The Republic of China is a republic but it's autocratic.

At Franklin said when asked if the US is a monarchy--"We are a Republic."

 

[Yakuda]

Republics don't have to be democracies. There are autocratic republics.

And this one isnt a democracy

 

[gfm7175]

Everyone look at the cult member that thinks his cult leader is stupid.


"More than any country in history we’ve made gains toward a democracy that is enviable throughout the world." Donald Trump in Lacey Rose interview

"This election will determine whether we’re a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy but are in fact controlled by a small handful of global special interests rigging the system, and our system is rigged." Donald Trump to Rush Limbaugh

"This is about our democracy and the sacred rights that generations of Americans have fought, bled, and died to secure." Donald Trump

"Every time voter fraud occurs, it cancels out the vote of a lawful citizen, and undermines democracy." Donald Trump

"Nothing threatens the integrity of our Democracy more than when government officials put their public office up for sale." Donald Trump

That's the best you got?? "Orange Man bad"??
TOO FUNNY!

You didn't think that I was aware of the relevant history and etymology behind those forms of government, did you?

 

[gfm7175]

Based on your strict standard

Why do you say "your strict standard"? I didn't form the government; I wasn't alive then. I'm just informing you of the history that you apparently deny.

then Athens was NOT a democracy since only SOME of the people voted.

The male citizens voted. That's how it was back then.

In fact Athens had a sitting council that was responsible to decide what would be brought to a vote of the people.

Yes. So? It was still the male citizens who voted.

It seems you don't even understand your own definition.

It's not MY definition. It's HISTORY. It's etymology. I have nothing to do with it.

By your idiotic demand that democracy can only be a society where everyone votes on every issue

It's not "[my] idiotic demand". It's HISTORY. It's etymology. I have nothing to do with it.

then there has never been an actual democracy in the history of the world.

Denial of history.

But in reality democracy means "rule by the people"

Yes, that's quite literally what I said in my opening post.

which means any government where the people rule by some form of voting even if they vote for people to represent them then that would be a democracy.

Nope, that's not democracy.

If we accept that "rule by the people" is the standard for what creates a democracy

I accept it, but you don't.

can you explain the meaning of "we the people" in the preamble to the US Constitution?

It means that the citizens are the source of the government's authority, not that the form of government is a democracy.

Does the Constitution have anything to do with "rule by the people" or not?

The Constitution is greatly influenced by the government of ancient Rome, NOT of ancient Athens. The USA is a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy.

 

[gfm7175]

A republic is only a form of democracy. Something even second graders are expected to understand.

Poor Hume... Like Richard, Hume denies both history and etymology.

 

[Hume]

Poor Hume... Like Richard, Hume denies both history and etymology.

I actually studied history. And I actually can read ancient Greek. So, way beyond you.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

At Franklin said when asked if the US is a monarchy--"We are a Republic."

Franklin was not asked if we were a democracy. He was asked if we are a republic or a monarchy. We are not a monarchy.

If I ask if the large plant in the back of my house is a tree or a rock and you respond, "It's a tree." Does that mean it isn't an oak? Of course not. Only someone in a cult would claim picking one of two choices means all other choices are wrong. How deep are you in the cult that you can't understand that simple logic?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Why do you say "your strict standard"? I didn't form the government; I wasn't alive then. I'm just informing you of the history that you apparently deny.

The male citizens voted. That's how it was back then.

Ah the stupidity comes out. Our elected representatives vote. If only certain people vote it isn't a democracy but if only certain people vote then it is a democracy?

Yes. So? It was still the male citizens who voted.

That would mean only certain people voted. I wonder what you call it when only certain people vote on what laws are to be passed.

It's not MY definition. It's HISTORY. It's etymology. I have nothing to do with it.

It's not "[my] idiotic demand". It's HISTORY. It's etymology. I have nothing to do with it.

History and etymology say that the US is a democracy. It isn't a pure democracy but is a representative democracy.
The people rule is the origin of the word. In the US the people rule.
I have provided historical quotes saying the US is a democracy and you just ignore history.

I find it rather funny that you bring up the word etymology and then completely ignore what etymology means. Words change meaning over time. Etymology charts those changes and doesn't demand that only the original meaning can be used.

Denial of history.

Yes, that's quite literally what I said in my opening post.

Nope, that's not democracy.

I accept it, but you don't.

It means that the citizens are the source of the government's authority, not that the form of government is a democracy.

So the people rule but the people don't rule? You really are in a cult.

 

[gfm7175]

Ah the stupidity comes out. Our elected representatives vote. If only certain people vote it isn't a democracy but if only certain people vote then it is a democracy?

That would mean only certain people voted. I wonder what you call it when only certain people vote on what laws are to be passed.

It was a different world back then, Richard...

History and etymology say that the US is a democracy.

Wrong again, Richard. The USA is a republic. The founders were heavily influenced by the government of ancient Rome, not ancient Athens. The US Constitution specifically guarantees a REPUBLICAN form of government.

It isn't a pure democracy but is a representative democracy.

It isn't a Democracy at all.

The people rule is the origin of the word.

Yes.

In the US the people rule.

Nope. In the US, the people are the source of the government's authority, but they elect representatives to exercise that authority in accordance with a constitution. That's a republic. In a democracy, the people exercise that authority themselves in a "mob rule" fashion (no constitution).

I have provided historical quotes saying the US is a democracy and you just ignore history.

You've provided nothing authoritative. The authority here is the formation of the governments themselves, namely in ancient Rome (republic) and ancient Athens (democracy). The etymology of the words is also an authority: republic (public affair) -- democracy (people rule).

I find it rather funny that you bring up the word etymology and then completely ignore what etymology means.

This is your issue, not mine.

Words change meaning over time. Etymology charts those changes and doesn't demand that only the original meaning can be used.

Here, you are attempting to rewrite history.

So the people rule but the people don't rule? You really are in a cult.

"public affair" and "people rule" are two different things, as already described.

 

[Ross Dolan]

This thread is being made for Poor Richard Saunders, who doesn't know the difference between the two separate types of government.

DEMOCRACY: This type of government stems from ancient Athens. This type of government stems from the word (demokratia), which is a combination of the words (demos) and (kratos). Demos means [people] and kratos means [power/rule]. Thus, the word 'democracy' means "rule by the people". In this form of government, citizens (men, at the time) directly vote on all proposed laws.

REPUBLIC: This type of government stems from ancient Rome. This type of government stems from the term (res publica), which means "public affair". Instead of "rule by the people", this type of government is "rule by law/constitution". In ancient Rome, this "law/constitution" was largely unwritten (except for the Twelve Tables), but it was still the foundation of the government. In ancient Rome, citizens (rather than directly voting on all proposed laws) elected representatives to vote on their behalf.


These two separate forms of government are NOT the same thing.

Give it a break, g...or Mr. M, if you prefer.

America is, at least for now, A DEMOCRACY.

America is, at least for now, A REPUBLIC.

If you are trying to show that you are smarter than the rest of us by highlighting a difference between the two...don't bother. It won't work. You are MAGA...which means you are of very limited intellect.