Younger Democrats have soured on capitalism

[T. A. Gardner]

"Food deserts in NYC are low-income neighborhoods, such as parts of the Bronx, Harlem, Coney Island, and Queens, where residents lack access to affordable, healthy food and large supermarkets. These areas are characterized by a scarcity of full-service grocery stores and an abundance of bodegas, which often offer unhealthy options. This lack of fresh, affordable food leads to higher rates of diet-related illnesses like obesity and diabetes in these communities."

Again, the private grocery businesses will continue to run. No loss there.

That doesn't answer my question. You said there's history of failures that he will repeat.
What are the examples?

No they don't. They want to address the problem of AR-15s. The right embraces AR-15s and doesn't want to address the problem.

Government run grocery stores

The absurdity of government grocery stores exposes the flaws of public schools

Zohran Mamdani’s proposal for state-run supermarkets exposes the inefficiencies of state-run education.

reason.com

They failed in Chicago and Kansas most recently in the US

Government-Owned Grocery Stores ... What Could Go Wrong?

Jim Geraghty of National Review Online assesses one major city’s plan to get into the grocery business. [T]he era of government-run grocery stores may not be as dead and buried as it seems, as the city of Chicago – already doing such a terrific job on handling crime, poverty, homelessness, and...

www.johnlocke.org

https://www.cato.org/commentary/state-run-supermarkets-bad-statist-solution-search-problem

"Free" public transit

Even Slate, a very pro-Progressive Leftist magazine says this idea sucks

The Problem With Free Transit

A growing movement wants to scrap bus and subway fares. That’s not what riders need most.

slate.com

The Consequences of Free Transit, Part 1: The History of Transit Failure

During the two years preceding the emergence of COVID-19, transit ridership declined by roughly 10 percent each year. Keep in kind that the percentage of poor people (most transit riders among them used to be referred to as “transit-dependent”) increased during this period.

www.linkedin.com

Time efficiency for riders should be self-obvious.

The top 10 US public transit systems losing money

The 10 U.S. metro rail systems that lose the most money per passenger | Brookings

All metro rail systems across the U.S.—which include heavy rail, such as subways and elevated trains, and light rail, which operates at street level—reported operating at a loss in 2013. These are the 10 that lose the most money per passenger.

www.brookings.edu

In the US virtually all public transit systems, if not all, run at a significant loss

Most Profitable Public Transportation by Continent

You might be surprised to know that most public transit systems are actually unprofitable. This is a huge problem as it often means that taxpayers have to subsidize trains, busses and metros to keep them operational, which in turn leads to lack of support for new transit projects.

lovetransit.substack.com

In Phoenix, the light rail system loses so much money that it'd be cheaper to buy every regular rider of it a new Prius instead.

Buying Brand New $23,000 Cars For Commuters in Phoenix Is Cheaper Than Light Rail for $1.4B

The other day, Phoenix trumpeted that its daily light rail ridership had reached 37,000 boardings per weekday. Since most of those people have two boardings per day (one each direction) we can think of this as 18,500 people making a round trip each day.Well, if we bought each of these folks a...

www.aei.org

Light rail is cool, but it’s costing too much for what it delivers

Before the Phoenix light rail was built, local author Warren Meyer predicted in Forbes magazine that for the cost of the construction, he could buy a Prius for every daily

www.eastvalleytribune.com

Phoenix / Valley Metro Light Rail Report Card: F

Folks who read this site know I have been critical of Phoenix light rail since well before it was opened. So often, folks just willfully misinterpret my criti

coyoteblog.com

https://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0502.pdf

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0739885921000706

In short, you spend more time walking to points to take public transit, then more time waiting for it to periodically arrive, then more time as it stops at intermediate locations to your destination, then more time once you arrive to walk to your final destination. The opportunity cost of this is a loss of other things you could do with that time spent traveling. It makes public transit a loser in terms of opportunity costs.

The unavailability of public transit in the US

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/27/americas-largest-cities-with-no-public-transportation/

Few US cities have 24 hour public transit

https://www.justanswer.com/general/22ovs-cities-united-states-24-hr-public-transi.html?r=impact%7C2003851%7CBlogger.com%20Tech%20Support%20-%20Text%20Link%7C&clickid=y42S89UYRxycUy4znZ3mo12%3AUkpwlczl3Wcv1U0&aff_sub_id=EdgeBingFlow&aff_sub_id2=oc5A05L8E_cFrofF6SHThPJRAnyffojGANnSDU0m9IBGaadRi_vR8IZayktHaXEi&aff_sub_id3=&aff_sub_id4=&chat_text=&iradId=1114062&irgwc=1

Which cities have 24 hours public transport? | Zicla

Which are the cities with 24 hours public transport? Discover it and save money using underground or bus instead of taxi. It will be cheaper!

www.zicla.com

This means if you work a shift other than daytime Monday to Friday, you may find yourself without a public transit option or very restricted public transit.

 

[AProudLefty]

Government run grocery stores

The absurdity of government grocery stores exposes the flaws of public schools

Zohran Mamdani’s proposal for state-run supermarkets exposes the inefficiencies of state-run education.

reason.com

An opinion piece.

They failed in Chicago and Kansas most recently in the US

Government-Owned Grocery Stores ... What Could Go Wrong?

Jim Geraghty of National Review Online assesses one major city’s plan to get into the grocery business. [T]he era of government-run grocery stores may not be as dead and buried as it seems, as the city of Chicago – already doing such a terrific job on handling crime, poverty, homelessness, and...

www.johnlocke.org

It doesn’t show the failure.

Why worry? The privately owned grocery businesses are still going to run.

No loss.

Going to address the rest of your post later.

You claimed that there is a history of failures that he will repeat.

 

[cawacko]

These discussions are always interesting. I don't really disagree w/ what you're saying, and consider myself a capitalist & beneficiary of capitalism.

But my comments are more from a practical level. It's just not sustainable given the trends. It's not a stretch to extrapolate the trends we have seen for decades, and realize that we're heading toward a future where there are a figurative handful of billionaires & trillionaires, and everyone else is paycheck to paycheck or worse.

I can't say that can't happen, but that also assumes nothing changes. Look at AI. It could massively reshape productivity, opportunity and even how wealth is distributed. So I don't think we can simply project today's trends on a straight line into the future.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

An opinion piece.

It doesn’t show the failure.

Yes, it does. When the government store runs at a loss, can't keep common items on the shelves, and is so poorly run that people go out of their way to find alternatives, it shows failure.

Why worry? The privately owned grocery businesses are still going to run.

And one of two things happens: Either the government store gets subsidized and the private stores penalized forcing the private stores to close, or the government stores fail and go out of business.

 

[AProudLefty]

Yes, it does. When the government store runs at a loss, can't keep common items on the shelves, and is so poorly run that people go out of their way to find alternatives, it shows failure.

So they go to other stores.

And one of two things happens: Either the government store gets subsidized and the private stores penalized forcing the private stores to close, or the government stores fail and go out of business.

Source to that claim?

The privately owned grocery businesses are going to run.

Trader's Joe, Walmart and Aldi are going to continue to run.

If Mamdani really is a Communist/Socialist, he would run those businesses out.

 

[anonymoose]

Other polls suggest that capitalism’s waning popularity reflects a growing sense of economic unfairness, rather than a broader rejection of an economic system. Views of free enterprise remain largely positive, according to the new Gallup poll, but perceptions of big business have soured since 2010.

What Americans think about socialism and capitalism, according to a new Gallup poll

A new Gallup poll finds that Democrats view socialism more positively than they did in the past, while their views of capitalism are more negative.

apnews.com

And?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So they go to other stores.

Source to that claim?

The privately owned grocery businesses are going to run.

Trader's Joe, Walmart and Aldi are going to continue to run.

If Mamdani really is a Communist/Socialist, he would run those businesses out.

Mamdani Defends Government-Run Grocery Stores Despite Failing Models, $60M Price Tag

Mamdani defends costly government grocery stores despite previous failures and challenges.

townhall.com

Critics take aim at Zohran Mamdani's plan for NYC-run grocery stores

Zohran Mamdani, New York City’s Democratic mayoral candidate, is receiving some pushback from opponents of his plan to create a network of five city-owned grocery stores to help New Yorkers with affordability and access. If he’s elected mayor in the fall, Mamdani has said he would push to open...

www.nbcnewyork.com

So, if Mamdani does what he says and opens one government grocery store per borough running them at discounted prices then any or all of the following will happen.

Private grocery stores will become non-competitive. Grocery stores run on a 1 to 2% margin right now. They can't afford to lower prices any further.

The subsidies for the government store will grow until they are unaffordable, or they will be insufficient to keep stock on the shelves and scarcity will result.

In so-called "food deserts," this model often still fails as people seek alternatives at greater distances because the government store lacks variety, stock, etc.

Government run grocery stores exist already. The largest chain of these is the DoD commissary system. These serve military bases and are often in locations--bases--that are remote from any other town, city, or such. They operate on the same principle as private groceries do and operate at a small profit that is rolled back into the system. They generally have no competition.

Some towns, cities, and states have tried government run groceries and these have nearly uniformly failed in operation as costs grew, they were unprofitable and couldn't successfully compete. There are a few exceptions, but they are far between. Mamdani wants to try this in the largest city in the US. It's a virtual certainty that it will fail at a significant cost.

 

[Into the Night]

Other polls suggest that capitalism’s waning popularity reflects a growing sense of economic unfairness, rather than a broader rejection of an economic system. Views of free enterprise remain largely positive, according to the new Gallup poll, but perceptions of big business have soured since 2010.

What Americans think about socialism and capitalism, according to a new Gallup poll

A new Gallup poll finds that Democrats view socialism more positively than they did in the past, while their views of capitalism are more negative.

apnews.com

NOTHING is more fair than capitalism. ANYONE can play.

 

[Into the Night]

Socialism grows more polarizing​

While capitalism has gotten slightly less popular among Americans overall, views of socialism have remained stable. That’s because while Democrats have warmed somewhat to the idea, Republicans’ opinions of socialism – which were already negative – have curdled even more.

Now, the Gallup poll found that only 14% of Republicans have a positive view of socialism, compared to 66% of Democrats. Positive views of socialism have grown among older and younger Democrats, according to Gallup’s polling.

Socialism is based on theft of wealth. Only capitalism can create wealth. Indeed, socialism cannot exist without capitalism nearby to steal from.

 

[Into the Night]

No young person wants to be part of Trump's fascism.

Trump is a capitalist. DEMOCRATS want fascism and other forms of socialism.

 

[Into the Night]

socialism=fascism=democracy=utopia=monarchy

Everything the Democrats want. The 'Utopia' always turns out to be hell on Earth.

 

[Into the Night]

Don't know, don't care.

They do, and they're terrible.

 

[AProudLefty]

Mamdani Defends Government-Run Grocery Stores Despite Failing Models, $60M Price Tag

Mamdani defends costly government grocery stores despite previous failures and challenges.

townhall.com

Critics take aim at Zohran Mamdani's plan for NYC-run grocery stores

Zohran Mamdani, New York City’s Democratic mayoral candidate, is receiving some pushback from opponents of his plan to create a network of five city-owned grocery stores to help New Yorkers with affordability and access. If he’s elected mayor in the fall, Mamdani has said he would push to open...

www.nbcnewyork.com

So, if Mamdani does what he says and opens one government grocery store per borough running them at discounted prices then any or all of the following will happen.

Private grocery stores will become non-competitive. Grocery stores run on a 1 to 2% margin right now. They can't afford to lower prices any further.

No evidence of that. People are going to shop privately owned grocery stores.

The subsidies for the government store will grow until they are unaffordable, or they will be insufficient to keep stock on the shelves and scarcity will result.

Okay so the alternatives are still there.

In so-called "food deserts," this model often still fails as people seek alternatives at greater distances because the government store lacks variety, stock, etc.

As I have stated.

Government run grocery stores exist already. The largest chain of these is the DoD commissary system. These serve military bases and are often in locations--bases--that are remote from any other town, city, or such. They operate on the same principle as private groceries do and operate at a small profit that is rolled back into the system. They generally have no competition.

I know.

Some towns, cities, and states have tried government run groceries and these have nearly uniformly failed in operation as costs grew, they were unprofitable and couldn't successfully compete. There are a few exceptions, but they are far between. Mamdani wants to try this in the largest city in the US. It's a virtual certainty that it will fail at a significant cost.

So you say. We will see.

Meanwhile, grocery stores will still be available and running.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Socialism is based on theft of wealth. Only capitalism can create wealth. Indeed, socialism cannot exist without capitalism nearby to steal from.

It goes further than that. In order for Socialism to work perpetually--

Let me digress there for a moment: Socialism that confiscates wealth and does no more will eventually run out of money. That's been true everywhere it's tried.

--perpetually, it requires that people be altruistic. That is, those who can do, will do, and willingly give away the fruits of that labor to those that cannot or will not do whatever it is to generate wealth in society. That is, the rich will willingly become equally poor but still work just as hard at whatever they do to generate the income that made them rich.

Of course, that goes entirely against human nature so the only way it can happen is by force of government. The usual result is a socialist society quickly devolves to the lowest common denominator with the exception of those willing to work outside of the government system. This results in everyone being equally poor except those that move into black market operations outside of the government system.

In a socialist society the economy quickly becomes corrupt, criminal, and predatory. Those without a means to move into the black market become the new poor while those that succeed in the black market become rich.

 

[AProudLefty]

NOTHING is more fair than capitalism. ANYONE can play.

Socialism is based on theft of wealth. Only capitalism can create wealth. Indeed, socialism cannot exist without capitalism nearby to steal from.

Trump is a capitalist. DEMOCRATS want fascism and other forms of socialism.

Everything the Democrats want. The 'Utopia' always turns out to be hell on Earth.

They do, and they're terrible.

Roll the dice!

 

[Into the Night]

splurting. I just coined it... It mixes "spurting" and "blurting" in a one word description that leaves everyone looking for something to wipe off your nasty ignorance from their screen.

A good word. Describes a lot of posters here much of the time, especially when they've lost an argument as you described.

 

[AProudLefty]

It goes further than that. In order for Socialism to work perpetually--

Let me digress there for a moment: Socialism that confiscates wealth and does no more will eventually run out of money. That's been true everywhere it's tried.

--perpetually, it requires that people be altruistic. That is, those who can do, will do, and willingly give away the fruits of that labor to those that cannot or will not do whatever it is to generate wealth in society. That is, the rich will willingly become equally poor but still work just as hard at whatever they do to generate the income that made them rich.

Of course, that goes entirely against human nature so the only way it can happen is by force of government. The usual result is a socialist society quickly devolves to the lowest common denominator with the exception of those willing to work outside of the government system. This results in everyone being equally poor except those that move into black market operations outside of the government system.

In a socialist society the economy quickly becomes corrupt, criminal, and predatory. Those without a means to move into the black market become the new poor while those that succeed in the black market become rich.

In a Laissez-faire Capitalist society the economy quickly becomes corrupt, criminal, and predatory.

 

[Into the Night]

I have always rejected the idea that the choices are capitalism or communism, or some form of socialism.

There is a system we haven't thought of yet, but I believe in the future, we will. None of the current economic systems are sustainable or fair.

Capitalism is. Anyone can play.

Nothing stops you from creating a successful business, getting a good job,or making money to pay for that nice house(es), car(s), or anything else; except your own lack of initiative.

It requires no supervision from anyone. Price discovery controls the market. The incentive is to build smarter, faster, cheaper, or just outright invent new markets.

That's how the personal computer market was created, Barfly. It's how web commerce grew into what it is too. It's how cars became affordable to more people. It's how you can go to the grocery store and are free to buy stuff from around the world.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

In a Laissez-faire Capitalist society the economy quickly becomes corrupt, criminal, and predatory.

But at least it's honest about what it is. In a socialist economy, the government either steps in to crush the black markets, turns a blind eye to those markets, or itself becomes invested in them as a player.

 

[Into the Night]

Repeat what?

You lost context again? Just twenty seconds that time!