Ignorance and the Bible

Cypress said:
I am skeptical about the God of Abraham specifically, but this question is easy to answer. I have no idea why atheists think it's such a gotcha question.

If God created space and time, then God exists outside of time and is eternal. A supernatural entity that exists outside of time and space is not subject to Issac Newtons laws of cause and effect.
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Nothing can exist outside the Universe, by definition. It is a UNIverse.

Atheists don't bother to ask any such question. They literally don't care.

Isaac Newton never wrote any law called 'cause and effect'.
 
gmark77 said:
I am 100% accurate.
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How do you know? The future hasn't happened yet!
gmark77 said:
it has even been attested by multiple witnesses:
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What 'witnesses'? It hasn't happened yet!
gmark77 said:
"I saw him predict the future perfectly!" said a witness.
"I, too, saw him predict the future perfectly!" said another witness.
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You are now locked in paradox. You cannot argue both sides of any paradox, GM. The past is not the future.
 
domer76 said:
There is no indication that I know of where Jesus wanted anyone to violate the law to find salvation. His message was simple. Follow the law and repent for your sins and you’ll be forgiven. Then you can enter the kingdom.

Unlike Paul, who said something entirely different. He said following the law was insufficient. You had to accept and believe the death and resurrection of Christ to enter the kingdom. Accept a human sacrifice to gain eternal life. What an odd message!
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Wrong! Saved by Grace not good works
 
gmark77 said:
I'm not going to let you run away from this. You (and Ross and Cypress) all seem to think you know better what my philosophy is than I do.

I have provided my position and even supported it with external citations so you know it isn't just "made up by me".
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Yes. It's clear what your religion is. You are no atheist.

You belong to the Church of No God, the Church of Covid, the Church of Global Warming, the Church of Green, the Church of Hate, the Church of the Ozone Hole, and the Church of Karl Marx.

ALL of these are fundamentalist style religions.
 
Cypress said:
Feel free to give convincing evidence there was something before the Big Bang.

The universe had a definite starting point at 13.7 billion years ago, and the Guth-Vilenkin theorem demonstrates that an expanding universe has to have a definite spacetime boundary in the past - aka, it can't be infinitely old.

There was nothing before the Big Bang, and even if one speculates about a multiverse, there has to be an origin point.
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There was no “nothing” as we think of nothing. The concepts of time, energy, gravity, matter that we know today did not apply.

I had to look up your theorem. Apparently, you didn’t read far enough. “The theorem doesn't prove how or from what the universe originated, as it relies on classical spacetime and not a complete quantum theory of gravity.“
 
gmark77 said:
I'm not going to let you run away from this. You (and Ross and Cypress) all seem to think you know better what my philosophy is than I do.

I have provided my position and even supported it with external citations so you know it isn't just "made up by me".
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Your position is that of an atheistic coward. Answer my questions honestly...and even you will see that.
 
domer76 said:
There was no “nothing” as we think of nothing. The concepts of time, energy, gravity, matter that we know today did not apply.

I had to look up your theorem. Apparently, you didn’t read far enough. “The theorem doesn't prove how or from what the universe originated, as it relies on classical spacetime and not a complete quantum theory of gravity.“
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Right, it doesn't prove how the universe originated.

It proves that there had to be a spacetime boundary condition in the past, but it makes no statement on how everything originated.

However you slice it, there seems to have been an origin point.

Nothing is literally nothing. No time, no energy, no space, no dimension, no physical laws.


The bottom line is from the perspective of the atheist and the physical materialist, a lawfully ordered universe blinked into existence from inanimate nothingness and random chance.

That is as big a miracle as anything in the New Testament.


This is an article by Aleksandr Valenkin, one of the authors of the theorem

The answer to the question, “Did the universe have a beginning?” is, “It probably did.” We have no viable models of an eternal universe. The BGV theorem gives us reason to believe that such models simply cannot be constructed.​
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When physicists or theologians ask me about the BGV theorem, I am happy to oblige. But my own view is that the theorem does not tell us anything about the existence of God. A deep mystery remains. The laws of physics that describe the quantum creation of the universe also describe its evolution. This seems to suggest that they have some independent existence.​
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What exactly this means, we don’t know.​
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- Aleksandr Valenkin​

web.archive.org

The Beginning of the Universe | Alexander Vilenkin | Inference

Despite the perplexing questions associated with the universe having a beginning, the BGV theorem shows it must have had one. Alexander Vilenkin describes the theory of quantum creation, and why it means that the universe both could have a beginning and be uncaused.
web.archive.org web.archive.org
 
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gmark77 said:
I'm not going to let you run away from this. You (and Ross and Cypress) all seem to think you know better what my philosophy is than I do.

I have provided my position and even supported it with external citations so you know it isn't just "made up by me".
Click to expand...
What " position "?
 
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