Trumppers, thoughts on spending bill?
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
No, it's fucked up because FDR put wage and price controls on it in WW 2. Ever since between the insurance industry and government, the two have made things progressively worse and worse. Pharma companies are simply a reaction to that as well as having to deal with many countries not allowing them to recoup their R&D costs on new drugs (eg., government interference).
Yes, the medical insurance industry is as fucked up here as the government, but both are to blame. Nationalizing medical care only ensures mediocrity for everyone but the rich.
Callinectes
Proud MAGA Semi-Facist
YOUR side added it, and you left the mess of paying for it to the GOP. How is this bill "adding three and half trillion more" to the debt? And don't give me any of that "how are you going to pay for the tax cuts?" crap.
serendipity
Verified User
She's taking the piss out of Jarhead!
serendipity
Verified User
lol no. Few people had any such thing as health insurance at all.
AI Overview
Information regarding the specific number of health insurance company bankruptcies during the Great Depression is limited in the provided search results
. However, the provided information does indicate the following regarding insurance companies during that period:
Information regarding the specific number of health insurance company bankruptcies during the Great Depression is limited in the provided search results
. However, the provided information does indicate the following regarding insurance companies during that period:
Impact of the Great Depression on the broader insurance industry:
- National Surety Company: This large and diversified insurance company experienced a crisis in 1933 due to losses from its mortgage-backed security guarantees. This led to a liquidity crisis, a run on the company by policyholders, and a reorganization plan that involved splitting the company in two to prevent systemic consequences.
- Life Insurance: The life insurance industry demonstrated resilience during this period. Insurance savings doubled as a percentage of national income by the turn of the 20th century, growing rapidly in the 1920s and peaking at 7% during the Great Depression.
- Banks vs. Insurers: The insurance sector, in general, weathered the Great Depression far better than the commercial banking sector. Banks experienced thousands of failures, while insurance companies were able to make contractual payments and continue providing death benefits to beneficiaries.
- Emergence of Health Insurance: The Great Depression served as a catalyst for the development of modern health insurance. Hospitals and physicians began implementing forms of insurance to ensure payment for services, which had become difficult due to the economic downturn.
- Early Forms of Health Insurance: Before the Great Depression, what is now considered health insurance mainly existed as disability income insurance (to cover lost wages due to illness) or industrial sickness funds (employer-sponsored funds). The Baylor University plan, which inspired numerous health insurance groups, emerged during this period. These groups eventually consolidated to form the Blue Cross network.
- Commercial Insurers and Health Coverage: Commercial insurers were initially hesitant to offer health insurance because of the perceived difficulty in defining and measuring the risk. However, as hospital service plans became popular, they began offering "hospitalization coverage" in 1934 and surgical coverage in 1938, as these were considered more definite events.
How American Tragedies Shaped Healthcare
The history of our nation shows some historical glitters along the path of tragedy that in many ways shaped our healthcare system as we know it today.
blog.medisolv.com
The 1918 Flu
Many people are talking about the similarities between the current COVID-19 crisis and the 1918 flu that ravaged not only our country, but the world.The flu coincided with the Progressive Era in America history and it revealed the essentially non-existent healthcare system at the time. Before the outbreak, most doctors worked for themselves or were funded by charities or religious institutions. They had no way to reliably test for diseases, no vaccines to speak of or even antibiotics to combat the pneumonia-like systems which ultimately ended up killing many of the flu victims.
There was no 'health insurance industry until FDR invented it in the first place.
The Federal Emergency Relief Act (FERA) was passed in 1933 which contained funds specifically for medical care. It largely put those funds into the hands of the state or local agencies to provide care for those suffering from acute conditions and emergency illnesses only.
In the following year, one million dollars of the FERA budget went to providing medical care for people in rural areas. FERA also established nursing programs that sent nurses to make home visits to sick people or those unaware of the availability of care.
Now remember that was President Herbert Hoover’s time who, even with a long history of child health advocacy, largely believed people should handle their own business. But when President Franklin Roosevelt came on the scene, he signed the Social Security Act of 1935 which, among other things, ushered in sweeping funds for public health.
“This ‘… is a new condition,’ he wrote, ‘… different from what prevailed in other times and in other countries when they faced the problem for planning for economic security against sickness.’” v
Ultimately the public health initiatives passed in the Social Security Act were focused on putting people to work through the Public Works Administration (PWA). They were responsible for building hospitals and similar facilities as well as improving water and sewer systems. These projects significantly improved public health during this era. The Social Security Act also provided grants to states for health insurance programs.vi
And finally, medical research was funded, which led to advancements in medicine including understanding how diet affects health. This then led to more regulations on how foods and drugs were made.
The U.S. Public Health Service, now known as the Department of Health and Human Services, began programs during this time that are still in progress today such as vaccination programs, sanitation efforts, prenatal care and cancer screenings.vi
The New Deal, spurred on by economic tragedy, made such enduring changes to our public health system that we can never know how it would have progressed otherwise.
IF the Wall Street scammers hadn't wrecked the economy in the first place, there wouldn't have been a 'New Deal', so put the blame where it belongs, on gamblers and thieves. I personally paid for my medical care out of my pocket until the 1990's; by then the costs were ridiculous and the HMOs were taking over and monopolizing health care. Now they totally dominate it, and of course rig prices, same as Big Pharm does, so no pity party for any of them.
CHAPTER3
1HISTORY OF HEALTH INSURANCE
IN THE UNITED STATES
Health insurance, as we generally think of it in the United States, began
with the Great Depression in the 1930s. In this chapter, we review the
history of health insurance and demonstrate how that history is linked
to current health insurance developments. Predating private health insurance
were efforts at government-sponsored coverage for workplace injury and a
tradition of industrial sickness funds. The Great Depression led hospitals and
then physicians to implement forms of insurance as means to ensure payment
for services. Interestingly, conventional insurance and managed care were
developed at this same time. The advent of World War II, the growth of the
labor movement, and the federal tax code all fostered the growth of employer-
sponsored coverage. Medicare was introduced in 1965 to provide coverage
to older citizens; it mimicked the private coverage common at the time.
...
Local hospitals were affected by the Depression like other firms. Ron-
ald Numbers (1979) reported that between 1929 and 1930 Baylor University
Hospital, then in Dallas, Texas, saw its receipts drop from $236 to $59 per
patient. Occupancy rates dropped from 71.3 to 64.1 percent, and contribu-
tions were down by two-thirds. Charity care, in contrast, was up 400 percent.
Justin Kimble, the administrator of Baylor University Hospital, devised
a means for people to pay for hospital care. He enrolled 1,250 Dallas public
school teachers into the Baylor Plan. For 50 cents a month, he promised to
provide 21 days of care in his hospital. Because of AMA opposition to insur-
ance plans, the plan only covered the hospital, not physicians’ services.
The model spread to other hospitals. In 1932 a plan was established
in Sacramento, California. However, unlike the Baylor plan, which covered
services at only a single hospital, the Sacramento plan covered services at any
hospital in the community. By 1933, 26 such “hospital service plans” were
in operation.
Local hospitals turned to their trade association to provide guidance
in establishing hospital service plans, so called because the participating hos-
pitals agreed to provide the services regardless of reimbursement from the
Dealing with Fundamental Insurance Challenges
As we will see in subsequent chapters, two fundamental challenges
facing insurers are “adverse selection” and “moral hazard.” The
former implies that sicker people will try to join insurance plans
designed for healthier people. The latter, that once obtaining cover-
age, people will have incentives to “be sick” and use the benefits.
The early sickness funds faced these same problems. They dealt with
the adverse selection problem by establishing age limits, requiring
medical examinations, and applying waiting periods before mem-
bers could join the plan or collect benefits. They dealt with the moral
hazard problem by having a committee of fellow fund members visit
the sick or injured member to determine if he was sick enough to
collect. One typically also had to be sick for a few days before the
benefits would begin. The fundamental challenges are enduring.
The fact is it doesn't matter if markets are 'free' or not if they're dominated by amoral swindlers and thieves, so that 'libertoon' 'free market' nonsense doesn't work any better than what we have now. The same sociopaths will be in charge regardless. 'Self regulation' by gangsters is just a ridiculous claim. Libertoons need to focus on strict morals if they want their sloganeering and fantasies to come true. Of course that takes all the fun out being a libertoon in the first place. Most voters choose to ignore libertoon rubbish.
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How is it possible that in a country as rich as ours...with almost 1000 billionaires...there still are people who cannot afford decent medical care?
How is it possible in a country as rich as ours...there still are children who do not get decent medical care because of money problems in families?
I am a capitalist, but if the kind of capitalism we have in America cannot eliminate that problem...and if we cannot tweak the system enough so that that problem is eliminated, we should institute a different system.
The notion that we are deliberately making that problem worse in order to give greater tax breaks to the richest people in our country is insane. Anyone supporting that idea is insane.
How is it possible in a country as rich as ours...there still are children who do not get decent medical care because of money problems in families?
I am a capitalist, but if the kind of capitalism we have in America cannot eliminate that problem...and if we cannot tweak the system enough so that that problem is eliminated, we should institute a different system.
The notion that we are deliberately making that problem worse in order to give greater tax breaks to the richest people in our country is insane. Anyone supporting that idea is insane.
One major reason is Democrats keep flooding the country with Third World parasites and cheap labor for employers, who then want the Feds to feed and take care of them without them having to pay taxes for their cheap labor programs. The U.S. was on the right track with the immigration reforms of the 1920's and the decline in population due to automation and better health and diets. Population leveled off at around 180 -200 million or so.
Then you ass clowns decided we needed more Third World savages and career criminals from south America and Mexico. Next you decided we just didn't have enough homicidal Islamo-Nazis hanging around. Now we have over 150 million more deadbeats straining the infrastructure and crashing the social safety net, so congratulation you halfwit tards; your dreams of destroying the U.S. is coming true. Keep whining about Trump; that way the mobs might spare you. lol not.
That is not a reason...that is a right-wing delusion.
But that is what is expected from a Trump ass-kisser.
You might also wrestle with this question: IN A WORLD AS RICH AS OURS (OVER 3000 Billionaires and almost 60 million Millionaires)...why are there ANY PEOPLE ANYWHERE without adequate medical care...including a billion and a half CHILDREN without adequate medical care, food, shelter and other necessities of life?
Respectfully as possible, I suspect it is because of right-wing scum like you.
Stay positive Phan,.....you will sleep better!
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Just more typical RepubliKKKan pork. Goodies for the wealthy, handful of dirt for us. We should require that all elected wonks take and pass a college level economics course. They seem incapable of understanding that when you cut your income, your debt is going to rise. It does no good to cut spending for areas you dislike, like Medicaid, while adding more money to things you love, like the defense budget.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Toxic is a MAGAT. Like most MAGATs, her motto is "I got mine so fuck everyone else." They don't care if ppl are suddenly without health care insurance. Or food.
^^^lol halfwit can't rebut anything, and also wouldn't be caught dead sponsoring any of his MS-13 heroes flooding in, either. As if it's America's fault the rest of the world is run by left wing scum. Your heroic commies and kiddie rapers rule most of the planet, yet you pieces of shit won't lift a finger to help anybody, just run around wetting yourselves over schools not being allowed to groom the kiddies in sexual mutilations and letting old faggots play around in their pants. You vermin could care less about 'The Children'; for you they're just cover for terrorists to hide behind.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
So does it make sense to you to cut income by giving the uberwealthy even more tax breaks than they already enjoy? I asked the Oracle at Google which American corporations pay little to no income tax. Its answer:
"
AI Overview
Based on recent analyses and reports, while the majority of profitable corporations pay federal income tax, a significant number manage to reduce their tax liability to very low levels, or even to zero, by taking advantage of legal deductions, exemptions, and loopholes
.
Examples of Corporations that Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in Recent Years:
Several organizations, including the Center for American Progress and the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), have identified specific companies that paid no federal income tax in recent years despite being profitable.
- 2023: Nearly 50 S&P 500 companies, including Tesla, 3M, and Airbnb, reported paying no income tax expense.
- 2021: 19 Fortune 100 companies, such as AT&T, Exxon Mobil, and Bank of America, paid "little or no taxes". Four of these, AT&T, Charter Communications, American International Group (AIG), and Dow Inc., even recorded negative tax rates, essentially receiving refunds from the government.
- 2020: 55 profitable Fortune 500 or S&P 500 companies paid no federal income tax, including Nike, FedEx, and Salesforce.com.
- 2018-2020 (3-year period): 26 corporations, including FedEx, Duke Energy, and Nike, paid zero or negative federal income tax despite being profitable in each of these years. "
Moron had eight years of Clinton, then 8 years of OBama, and four years of Biden; yet nothing changed. lol what an idiot. 20 years of DEmocrats in control of it of the last 32, only 8 years of a GOP establishment Prez.. No, Trump isn't part of the GOP establishment, no matter how much you tard whine; they hate his guts as much as you warped pieces of shit do. And, these vermin seem to be oblivious to which Party has by far the most billionaire donors and top 300 corporations behind it. Hilarious. They're either really stupid or just incompetent liars.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Obama inherited a crashed economy from W. A goodly amount of the debt under his tenure came from the bailouts to citizens and to corporations like GM and other American companies. Trump, on the other hand, inherited a robust and growing economy from Obama, and drove it straight off a cliff. We were officially in a recession BEFORE the pandemic began, thanks to Trump's mishandling of the economy, tax/revenue cuts that weren't replaced by other income. Like most (R)s, the #FatFascistFelon is shit when it comes to economic matters.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Trump is without question the worst president in this nation's history,
and is presiding over the worst government in this nation's history.
It follows, then, that he and his disastrous government
were elected by the worst citizens in this nation's history.
Trump suddenly dropping dead solves nothing
if 77,000,000+ of his trumpanzees don't drop dead with him.
That's where we are.
It's no joking matter.
That's why I see no solution other than partition,
and partition isn't happening anytime soon.
We're in a shitload of trouble with no apparent solutions.
A nation can't overcome a deficient citizenry.
That's our REAL problem.
and is presiding over the worst government in this nation's history.
It follows, then, that he and his disastrous government
were elected by the worst citizens in this nation's history.
Trump suddenly dropping dead solves nothing
if 77,000,000+ of his trumpanzees don't drop dead with him.
That's where we are.
It's no joking matter.
That's why I see no solution other than partition,
and partition isn't happening anytime soon.
We're in a shitload of trouble with no apparent solutions.
A nation can't overcome a deficient citizenry.
That's our REAL problem.