Values are not inherent to our nature or derived from logic.

Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
nope.

they're derived from trial and error, having to survive and the very nature of our beings.

just like the large language model of A.I. will never simulate life.

it's based on word probabilities not how living beings actually learn.
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You disagreed and then posted almost the exact same thing that Nietzsche said.
Trial and error is not nature, it is cultural. While our cultural choices may be there to help us survive as a species that doesn't make it part of our nature.
Ritual child sacrifice been mentioned already. it was a way to appease the gods and help society survive.
Go forth and multiply is cultural.
Overpopulation can destroy our species. Abortion can be seen as a way to prevent that and help our species survive.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
You disagreed and then posted almost the exact same thing that Nietzsche said.
Trial and error is not nature, it is cultural. While our cultural choices may be there to help us survive as a species that doesn't make it part of our nature.
Ritual child sacrifice been mentioned already. it was a way to appease the gods and help society survive.
Go forth and multiply is cultural.
Overpopulation can destroy our species. Abortion can be seen as a way to prevent that and help our species survive.
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trial and error is nature.

multiplying is nature.

you nihilism is anti-life and anti-nature.

you're a necromonger who reads knee-Chi wrong.
 
Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
trial and error is nature.

multiplying is nature.

you nihilism is anti-life and anti-nature.

you're a necromonger who reads knee-Chi wrong.
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LOL. Now you have just redefined everything to be nature.
Is it nature if I hook up two wires to a battery to see if my LED will light? And if it doesn't light then I hook them up the opposite way? That is an example of trial and error.
If multiplying is nature then how can there be extinctions? We have many instances in nature of species causing miscarriage or killing offspring due to poor environmental conditions for the species.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
LOL. Now you have just redefined everything to be nature.
Is it nature if I hook up two wires to a battery to see if my LED will light? And if it doesn't light then I hook them up the opposite way? That is an example of trial and error.
If multiplying is nature then how can there be extinctions? We have many instances in nature of species causing miscarriage or killing offspring due to poor environmental conditions for the species.
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no.

I said trial and error and reproduction are nature.

there is plenty of death in nature.

you're basically just an idiot to deny these things.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
In other words there is no innate culture since it is all created and continually changed by trial and error.
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basically.

but there are innate capacities in humans. our sociality and intelligence and ability to cooperate being among the most important.

these capacities produce, believe or not, fairly similar cultures.
 
Hey, @Cypress you made an accusation of my having a sock account. Let me know which one you think is my sock. Seriously. I'm genuinely curious. I'd like to see if they post anything like me or if you are just a dumb fuck.

I know you won't respond. You just get off attacking me (usually on a thread I've been "mysteriously" banned from right before you attack me, curious)
 
Cypress said:
I believe some things are objectively wrong. They are not subject to popular vote, opinion, or social consensus.

Ritual child sacrifice, slavery, the Hindu practice of Sati, African female genital mutilation are cultural values.

But they were wrong, are wrong, and always will be wrong. I am not willing to stake my conscience on the hill of cultural relativism.
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I am not endorsing any of those practices but Nietzsch is saying those values are relative to the culture in which one is born into. They may be abhorrent to us but quite the norm for others. So he is saying that values and thereby good and evil are relative.
 
Goyboy said:
I am not endorsing any of those practices but Nietzsch is saying those values are relative to the culture in which one is born into. They may be abhorrent to us but quite the norm for others. So he is saying that values and thereby good and evil are relative.
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The reason we humans universally accepted that ritual child sacrifice is wrong in all cases is because a universal recognition that it is always objectively wrong, independent of culture or opinion.

I believe what the Nazis did was objectively wrong, they didn't just have a different opinion than me.
 
Cypress said:
The reason we humans universally accepted that ririsl
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Hey, @Piece of Human Shit you made an accusation of my having a sock account. Let me know which one you think is my sock. Seriously. I'm genuinely curious. I'd like to see if they post anything like me or if you are just a dumb fuck.

I know you won't respond. You just get off attacking me (usually on a thread I've been "mysteriously" banned from right before you attack me, curious)
 
Cypress said:
The reason we humans universally accepted that ritual child sacrifice is wrong in all cases is because a universal recognition that it is always objectively wrong, independent of culture or opinion.

I believe what the Nazis did was objectively wrong, they didn't just have a different opinion than me.
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There were cultures where it was accepted.
Other cultures who did not believe in those practices helped put a stop to it.
 
Goyboy said:
There were cultures where it was accepted.
Other cultures who did not believe in those practices helped put a stop to it.
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The Nazis accepted eugenics, slavery, and the liquidation of mentally disabled people.

No one will ever convince me they just had a different opinion than me. The reason human ethics keep evolving incrementally towards superior levels of morality is because there must be a universal standard we are measuring against.

Nietzsche didn't even live the values he espoused. He never pursued the Ubermensch ideal of a superior life driven by will. He was a college professor working for a salary at a middling university.

Ghandi, Socrates, and Jesus lived the Ubermensch ideal of a will-driven superior life.
 
Cypress said:
The Nazis accepted eugenics, slavery, and the liquidation of mentally disabled people.

No one will ever convince me they just had a different opinion than me. The reason human ethics keep evolving incrementally towards superior levels of morality is because there must be a universal standard we are measuring against.

Nietzsche didn't even live the values he espoused. He never pursued the Ubermensch ideal of a superior life driven by will. He was a college professor working for a salary at a middling university.

Ghandi, Socrates, and Jesus lived the Ubermensch ideal of a will-driven superior life.
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The comments I made were an extrapolated of the statement that Neitzsche made.
Hitler's actions and the actions of his regime were extremely horrible but short lived. They were not that of a true culture. They were an aberration.
 
Goyboy said:
The comments I made were an extrapolated of the statement that Neitzsche made.
Hitler's actions and the actions of his regime were extremely horrible but short lived. They were not that of a true culture. They were an aberration.
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Well it sounds like you are trying to come over to my side.

There is a one-way trajectory in human history - even though it is uneven - towards more freedom, more equality, more respect for human dignity.

You can call that one-way trajectory totally coincidental if you want.

I say it's because there is some universal standard in human conscience that can be appealed to, even if it takes time, takes eloquent prophets, martyrs and role models to change minds, and operates on the scale of centuries.
 
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