LITERAL Hellfire Torment—Not A Bible Teaching

Alter2Ego

Alter2Ego

Verified User
The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died. So that brings us to the questions below.



DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

2. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell. Is that what you believe?

3. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please). Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

4. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

5. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?
 
Alter2Ego said:
The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died. So that brings us to the questions below.



DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

2. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell. Is that what you believe?

3. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please). Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

4. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

5. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?
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No hell in Judaism

  • Sheol: The common grave, which may also be the abode of the righteous dead. According to rabbinic teachings, the punishment of Sheol is temporary.
  • Gan Eden: A paradise, or heaven, for those who have lived according to God's law.
  • Resurrected body: The traditional view that flesh and spirit will be reunited in a resurrected body.
  • Children and grandchildren: The idea that we live on in our children and grandchildren.
We do believe in a type of Hell, but not the one found in cartoons and joke books. Hell is not a punishment in the conventional sense; it is, in fact, the expression of a great kindness.

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.

 
The idea of eternal punishment in hell isn't what Jews believed and isn't what Jesus believed or taught. Jesus believed that you go to some dark place, aka Sheol, when you die. When God comes back to earth to sort things out, the naughty people are destroyed in a lake of fire - not tortured for eternity. The saved people got to stay in the "Garden of Eden"-type of Earth. The idea of eternal torture in hell is a pagan view that was incorporated into Christianity later.
 
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Alter2Ego said:
The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died. So that brings us to the questions below.



DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

2. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell. Is that what you believe?

3. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please). Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

4. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

5. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?
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Laughable children’s stories.
 
Alter2Ego said:
The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died. So that brings us to the questions below.



DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

2. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell. Is that what you believe?

3. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please). Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

4. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

5. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?
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I will answer but first, whats the magic you think that exists in "3" scriptures verses? Also how many times does something need to be said in order for it to be true? If I said, "Grass is green" only once then its not true that grass is green?
 
Alter2Ego said:
The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died. So that brings us to the questions below.



DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

2. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell. Is that what you believe?

3. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please). Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

4. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

5. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?
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I think Luke 16:19-31 addresses most of what you want.
 
ZenMode said:
The idea of eternal punishment in hell isn't what Jews believed and isn't what Jesus believed or taught. Jesus believed that you go to some dark place, aka Sheol, when you die. When God comes back to earth to sort things out, the naughty people are destroyed in a lake of fire - not tortured for eternity. The saved people got to stay in the "Garden of Eden"-type of Earth. The idea of eternal torture in hell is a pagan view that was incorporated into Christianity later.
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I agree with most of what you said, ZenMode. However, you need to elaborate on the portion that I bolded in orange. Please explain what you mean when you said God will come back to earth.
 
Yakuda said:
I will answer but first, whats the magic you think that exists in "3" scriptures verses? Also how many times does something need to be said in order for it to be true? If I said, "Grass is green" only once then its not true that grass is green?
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Yakuda:

The reason why I ask for three scriptures at a time is because people have a habit of loading tons of scriptures all at once. We will take our time discussing the first three scriptures by paying attention to context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters). Then we will move on to another three.
 
Yakuda said:
I think Luke 16:19-31 addresses most of what you want.
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Yakuda:

Luke 16:19-31 tells the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. That's a parable (an illustration aka fictitious story). Therefore, it does not provide Biblical support for literal hellfire torment. Notice some of the verses quoted below:

Luke 16:19​

“There was a rich man who used to dress in purple and linen, enjoying himself day after day with magnificence.

Luke 16:20​

But a beggar named Lazʹa·rus used to be put at his gate, covered with ulcers

Luke 16:21​

and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, even the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.

Luke 16:22​

Now in the course of time, the beggar died and was carried off by the angels to Abraham’s side. “Also, the rich man died and was buried.

Luke 16:23​

And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side.

Luke 16:24​

So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’
 
Alter2Ego said:
I agree with most of what you said, ZenMode. However, you need to elaborate on the portion that I bolded in orange. Please explain what you mean when you said God will come back to earth.
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Jews, like Jesus, believed that heaven is where God lived and man lived on Earth. Man going to heaven after death was an idea created by Christians much later. Jews believed that the "Kingdom of God", as frequently referenced in the Bible, was a literal "kingdom" on EARTH. Jesus, during his time on Earth, was preaching "The end is near. God is coming back to judge everyone and you better get your shit together asap."

When God comes back, according to Jews, the naughty people are destroyed in a lake of fire. The saved people will, if deceased, be brought back to life to live in the Earthly kingdom of God where there will be no disease, no pain, no hunger, etc, aka Garden of Eden pre Adam eating the apple.
 
ZenMode said:
Jews, like Jesus, believed that heaven is where God lived and man lived on Earth. Man going to heaven after death was an idea created by Christians much later. Jews believed that the "Kingdom of God", as frequently referenced in the Bible, was a literal "kingdom" on EARTH. Jesus, during his time on Earth, was preaching "The end is near. God is coming back to judge everyone and you better get your shit together asap."

When God comes back, according to Jews, the naughty people are destroyed in a lake of fire. The saved people will, if deceased, be brought back to life to live in the Earthly kingdom of God where there will be no disease, no pain, no hunger, etc, aka Garden of Eden pre Adam eating the apple.
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ZenMode:

I need Bible book, chapter, and verse where Jesus said "God is coming back to the earth" to judge everyone.
 
Alter2Ego said:
ZenMode:

I need Bible book, chapter, and verse where Jesus said "God is coming back to the earth" to judge everyone.
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Before I spend time finding specific versus, do you agree that Jesus, during his time on earth, taught about the end of times and that it was coming very soon?
 
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ZenMode said:
Before I spend time finding specific versus, do you agree that Jesus, during his time on earth, taught about the end of times and that it was coming very soon?
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Yes, Jesus gave the composite sign for the last day of this wicked system of things.
 
ZenMode said:
Do you agree that there would be people who are saved and those who are not saved at the end of times?
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ZenMode:

Since it's stated like that in the Bible, of course I believe it.

Psalm 37:10​

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.

Psalm 37:11​

But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
 
Alter2Ego said:
Yakuda:

The reason why I ask for three scriptures at a time is because people have a habit of loading tons of scriptures all at once. We will take our time discussing the first three scriptures by paying attention to context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters). Then we will move on to another three.
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Volume doesnt equal accuracy
 
Alter2Ego said:
Yakuda:

Luke 16:19-31 tells the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. That's a parable (an illustration aka fictitious story). Therefore, it does not provide Biblical support for literal hellfire torment. Notice some of the verses quoted below:

Luke 16:19​

“There was a rich man who used to dress in purple and linen, enjoying himself day after day with magnificence.

Luke 16:20​

But a beggar named Lazʹa·rus used to be put at his gate, covered with ulcers

Luke 16:21​

and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, even the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.

Luke 16:22​

Now in the course of time, the beggar died and was carried off by the angels to Abraham’s side. “Also, the rich man died and was buried.

Luke 16:23​

And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side.

Luke 16:24​

So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’
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Yes a parable, an analogy if you will. Do you understand what an analogy is and what it is intended to represent?
 
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