BMW says goodbye to electric cars

Hydrogen is the way to go if you want no CO2 emissions from cars. The infrastructure is easy to add to existing gas stations eliminating the whole chargers everywhere idiocy that comes with battery cars. Hydrogen is also portable and storable, like gasoline, and unlike electricity.

My bet is that in the next 20 or so years hydrogen becomes the fuel of choice and battery cars die a deserved death just as they have for over 150 years now.
 
From the link:
creating pure hydrogen for vehicles requires a great deal of energy process to break the compound, which is derived from fossil fuels like natural gas.

How much energy?:thinking:
 
volsrock said:
BMW says goodbye to electric cars, hydrogen engines begins a new era

https://kleanindustries.com/resourc...liver hydrogen,to enter the automobile market.


Joe poops on himself
Click to expand...

Hydrogen engines are not exactly new. Fueling them has a lot of problems.

* The hydrogen must be manufactured. You can't just distill it out of crude oil, like gasoline can be. That process can be done by refactoring a hydrocarbon (producing a lot of CO2), or by electrolysis (requiring vast amounts of current, even more than charging EVs), or by liquifaction (requiring tremendous amounts of power and special handling due to low temperatures).
* The hydrogen must be transported to vendors and compressed (anywhere from 3000psi to 7000psi, dangerous pressures).
* The fuel is then put in a car. The tank, even under those tremendous pressures, cannot store enough hydrogen to give the car much range. Fueling can take up to 30 minutes or more to conduct, since the nozzle will often freeze to the car during fueling.
* Fuel cells require even more exotic rare resources than Li-ion batteries do.
* Fuel cells still require a hefty Li-ion battery pack, which acts as an electrical ballast. Fuel cells don't come up to power quickly. To get the acceleration, you use the batteries. When the fuel cell finally DOES come up to power, it is also used to recharge the battery.
* There are currently a lot fewer hydrogen fueling stations than EV recharge stations.

So much for the 'new era'.

Gasoline cars can store a LOT more energy in their tanks, which are at near atmospheric pressure. Being a liquid, refueling is easy, requiring only a few minutes. Gasoline is also a renewable fuel requiring only distillation from crude oil (a renewable resource). They are very efficient too, requiring only about half the energy to move them a given distance. They are also easy to repair and maintain, requiring only fairly common tools.

People tend to choose gasoline or diesel vehicles. There is a reason why these vehicles succeed in the marketplace.
EVs and hydrogen vehicles can only succeed by applying government force (tyranny and fascism).
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Hydrogen is the way to go if you want no CO2 emissions from cars. The infrastructure is easy to add to existing gas stations eliminating the whole chargers everywhere idiocy that comes with battery cars. Hydrogen is also portable and storable, like gasoline, and unlike electricity.

My bet is that in the next 20 or so years hydrogen becomes the fuel of choice and battery cars die a deserved death just as they have for over 150 years now.
Click to expand...

Hydrogen is NOT storable like gasoline! For hydrogen to work in vehicles, it must be under tremendous pressure (3000 or 7000 psi). Gasoline is a liquid that is stored at or near atmospheric pressure in vehicles. Gasoline also has a lot more energy available per tank, and takes only a few minutes to refuel, effectively giving the gasoline car unlimited range.

Hydrogen fuel-cell cars STILL REQUIRE large batteries to ballast the fuel cell.
 
Into the Night said:
Hydrogen engines are not exactly new. Fueling them has a lot of problems.

* The hydrogen must be manufactured. You can't just distill it out of crude oil, like gasoline can be. That process can be done by refactoring a hydrocarbon (producing a lot of CO2), or by electrolysis (requiring vast amounts of current, even more than charging EVs), or by liquifaction (requiring tremendous amounts of power and special handling due to low temperatures).
* The hydrogen must be transported to vendors and compressed (anywhere from 3000psi to 7000psi, dangerous pressures).
* The fuel is then put in a car. The tank, even under those tremendous pressures, cannot store enough hydrogen to give the car much range. Fueling can take up to 30 minutes or more to conduct, since the nozzle will often freeze to the car during fueling.
* Fuel cells require even more exotic rare resources than Li-ion batteries do.
* Fuel cells still require a hefty Li-ion battery pack, which acts as an electrical ballast. Fuel cells don't come up to power quickly. To get the acceleration, you use the batteries. When the fuel cell finally DOES come up to power, it is also used to recharge the battery.
* There are currently a lot fewer hydrogen fueling stations than EV recharge stations.

So much for the 'new era'.

Gasoline cars can store a LOT more energy in their tanks, which are at near atmospheric pressure. Being a liquid, refueling is easy, requiring only a few minutes. Gasoline is also a renewable fuel requiring only distillation from crude oil (a renewable resource). They are very efficient too, requiring only about half the energy to move them a given distance. They are also easy to repair and maintain, requiring only fairly common tools.

People tend to choose gasoline or diesel vehicles. There is a reason why these vehicles succeed in the marketplace.
EVs and hydrogen vehicles can only succeed by applying government force (tyranny and fascism).
Click to expand...

Mostly bollocks and well out of date, especially your canard about freezing nozzles. Toyota are about to release their new hydrogen combustion engines which could be a huge game changer.

Toyota’s Hydrogen Combustion Engine Has The Potential To Make EVs Obsolete

BYRICHARD SACHEK
UPDATED OCT 19, 2023
Toyota is taking a diversified approach to achieve carbon neutrality and it could be a winning formula for the Japanese automaker .


https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-hy...ete/#introducing-the-corolla-cross-h2-concept
 
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Joey wets his very heavy panties

Electric Vehicles Have A Weight Problem

A crash test study conducted by researchers at The University of Nebraska holds troubling news for the electric vehicle industry and policymakers focused on forcing the cars on consumers. The Canadian Press reports that the study has found what anyone able to reason critically has known for years, which is that US highway guardrails are not strong enough to withstand the force of EVs that weigh 1,000 – 4,000 lbs. more than their gas-powered counterparts.
 
anonymoose said:
From the link:
creating pure hydrogen for vehicles requires a great deal of energy process to break the compound, which is derived from fossil fuels like natural gas.

How much energy?:thinking:
Click to expand...
EVs run on electricity that is generated in large part by fossil fuels.
 
Diesel said:
Biden wants this.
Click to expand...

Biden? He knows that we have to try and save the environment. That is why he pushes EVs. He believes what 98 percent of environmental scientists do. I am sure he wishes he did not have this fight. The anti-science people come from all strata of society. It may not be a winning political position. But he is trying to do the right thing.
 
Nordberg said:
Biden? He knows that we have to try and save the environment. That is why he pushes EVs. He believes what 98 percent of environmental scientists do. I am sure he wishes he did not have this fight. The anti-science people come from all strata of society. It may not be a winning political position. But he is trying to do the right thing.
Click to expand...

Trying to figure out what really goes on in your head. My take is you have MSNBS on in your cave 24/7. That aside, how are EVs going to save anything?
 
Into the Night said:
Hydrogen is NOT storable like gasoline! For hydrogen to work in vehicles, it must be under tremendous pressure (3000 or 7000 psi). Gasoline is a liquid that is stored at or near atmospheric pressure in vehicles. Gasoline also has a lot more energy available per tank, and takes only a few minutes to refuel, effectively giving the gasoline car unlimited range.

Hydrogen fuel-cell cars STILL REQUIRE large batteries to ballast the fuel cell.
Click to expand...

Hydrogen can be stored as a liquid. That happens all the time. It doesn't require much pressure for that to happen, but rather just keeping it very cold.

nasakscliquidhydrogendewar.jpg
 
serendipity said:
Mostly bollocks and well out of date, especially your canard about freezing nozzles. Toyota are about to release their new hydrogen combustion engines which could be a huge game changer.

Toyota’s Hydrogen Combustion Engine Has The Potential To Make EVs Obsolete

[FONT=&]BYRICHARD SACHEK
[FONT=&]UPDATED OCT 19, 2023[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&]Toyota is taking a diversified approach to achieve carbon neutrality and it could be a winning formula for the Japanese automaker .

[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-hy...ete/#introducing-the-corolla-cross-h2-concept
Click to expand...

The ideal gas law is not 'out of date'.
Putting a heater capable of preventing freezing in a nozzle pumping compressed hydrogen gas is not a good idea for obvious safety reasons!
 
ExpressLane said:
EVs run on electricity that is generated in large part by fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Natural gas, oil products, and coal are used as fuels. NONE of them are fossils.
Oil and natural gas are renewable fuels. Coal? We don't know. It may or may not be renewable, but it's certainly cheap. There's plenty of it!
 
Nordberg said:
Biden? He knows that we have to try and save the environment. That is why he pushes EVs. He believes what 98 percent of environmental scientists do. I am sure he wishes he did not have this fight. The anti-science people come from all strata of society. It may not be a winning political position. But he is trying to do the right thing.
Click to expand...

'Save the environment' from what? You STILL haven't defined 'The Problem'.

Biden pushes EVs using illegal subsidies (communism) and mandates (fascism). If EVs are so great, why does the government need to heavily subsidize and mandate them??
BTW, Oil is NOT subsidized.

There is no such thing as an 'environmental science' except as a religious artifact. You are making up BS and numbers again, Sock.
It is YOU that is anti-science. You deny and discard the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing.

Science has no politics. Science has no religion. Science does not use consensus. There is no voting bloc in science.

Tyranny, communism, and fascism, are NOT 'the right thing'.

You cannot project YOUR problems on anybody else, Sock.
 
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