Biggest lies of the decade!

[apple0154]

Bullshit!

I guess you're not a government favorite.

 

[WinterBorn]

If the government stepped in before the people were destitute or got rid of the dire conditions necessary for aid people would respond favorably. What happens is people's lives are ripped apart before aid is offered so once they get the money they aren't so "government friendly".

People get behind on their rent or lose their home. Creditors start calling. There is shortage of food. All in the name of making sure someone doesn't abuse the system.

They take human beings and treat them like animals and then wonder why people act the way they do.

The gov't cannot step in just because people get into a tight spot. Hell, we ALL get into tight spots.

If creditors are calling it means you haven't paid your bills. Unless we are talking about medical bills, it is a situation where someone agreed to pay a certain amount every month in order to have something they want today. They got what they want and now they are not paying what they agreed.

Losing homes is often a case of getting more mortgage than you can afford. Its not a mystery. Its a matter of not being able to pay the bills you have accumulated. That is not the fault of the public tax payers.

Public assistance is to keep people from starving or being on the street. Short of that, it is the responsibility of the individual to provide for themselves.

There should, however, be some sort of educational requirement for those on welfare. If you get tax payer assistance, you must be doing something to get yourself off welfare and on your feet. Make some tax dollars available to pay for this.

 

[apple0154]

WTF? you just described fraud. Are you saying that's how it should work?

No, I'm saying that's how it does work because the government waits so long to help people the people become angry and revengeful. Simply put the government waits until the person is broken, has lost what they've worked years for, before offering help.

Similar to the mortgage crisis. It's not just the person losing their home. They lose the down payment it took them years to save. It causes conflict within the family. It affects the children.

First time home buyers could have been helped but we end up with the same argument "Why should they get something for nothing?" "Why shouldn't the investor who has 3 or 4 homes get the same help?" "Why steal from the rich?"

That's what's wrong with the system.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, I'm saying that's how it does work because the government waits so long to help people the people become angry and revengeful. Simply put the government waits until the person is broken, has lost what they've worked years for, before offering help.

Similar to the mortgage crisis. It's not just the person losing their home. They lose the down payment it took them years to save. It causes conflict within the family. It affects the children.

First time home buyers could have been helped but we end up with the same argument "Why should they get something for nothing?" "Why shouldn't the investor who has 3 or 4 homes get the same help?" "Why steal from the rich?"

That's what's wrong with the system.

These people may have saved for years to get a downpayment. They also got a mortgage they couldn't afford and didn't have the savings to account for if something happened.

 

[apple0154]

These people may have saved for years to get a downpayment. They also got a mortgage they couldn't afford and didn't have the savings to account for if something happened.

And many had loans on which the banks outrageously raised interest rates. There is no reason whatsoever to have high interest rates now. If a person is paying a reasonable interest rate there is no justifable reason to raise rates so high they can not afford them.

 

[WinterBorn]

And many had loans on which the banks outrageously raised interest rates. There is no reason whatsoever to have high interest rates now. If a person is paying a reasonable interest rate there is no justifable reason to raise rates so high they can not afford them.

If you have good credit, you get good rates. If you have bad credit, if you can get a loan at all, you pay higher rates. Thats the way things work. The bank makes more money for the higher risk.

Had the people paid their bills and not run up high credit card bills, they would be able to get better interest rates.

 

[DamnYankee]

Not to change the subject but I've always wondered about the Conservative/Right Wing thinking when it comes to families and society.

The traditions of family, supporting the values regarding helping each other and working together is what the Conservative/Right Wing have always championed. However, when it comes to others, other families, other people, society in general, their attitude is "to hell with them".

If the idea of family working together and looking out for each other is a basic building block of society then why do they not support expanding that idea in society?

Social programs similar to how a family would function. Medical plans. Welfare plans. Daycare. Why would they not support the very ways under which families operate knowing the benefits derived?

You are confused about what Conservatives want. We want limited government, and the ability to help others voluntarily.

 

[DamnYankee]

You want the gov't to protect your beliefs. You want the gov't to solve your problems. You want the gov't to protect your idea of marriage and to interfere in people's lives.

You're obviously a liberal for thinking that way.

You're obviously a faggot for thinking that way.

 

[WinterBorn]

You're obviously a faggot for thinking that way.

In the previous post you stated: "You are confused about what Conservatives want. We want limited government, and the ability to help others voluntarily."

If conservatives truly want a limited government, then your demands that the gov't protect your definition of marriage and continue to provide gov't benefits for something that you demand they not allow others to do, you are certainly not fitting the description of a conservative.

Therefore, you are a liberal.

 

[DamnYankee]

In the previous post you stated: "You are confused about what Conservatives want. We want limited government, and the ability to help others voluntarily."

If conservatives truly want a limited government, then your demands that the gov't protect your definition of marriage and continue to provide gov't benefits for something that you demand they not allow others to do, you are certainly not fitting the description of a conservative.

Therefore, you are a liberal.

You're obviously a faggot for thinking that way.

 

[WinterBorn]

You're obviously a faggot for thinking that way.

You are obviously a liberal for thinking that the gov't should solve your problems.

 

[Damocles]

If the government stepped in before the people were destitute or got rid of the dire conditions necessary for aid people would respond favorably. What happens is people's lives are ripped apart before aid is offered so once they get the money they aren't so "government friendly".

People get behind on their rent or lose their home. Creditors start calling. There is shortage of food. All in the name of making sure someone doesn't abuse the system.

They take human beings and treat them like animals and then wonder why people act the way they do.

If the government stepped in before they needed help it wouldn't fix anything, it would just start the cycle sooner. The government isn't here to provide for you, and it never should be at the most it should be a safety net for when you fall into destitution. Roads and commodes man, not bills and food.

Most of the time the more compassionate route is to allow people to learn from their mistakes. It may seem cruel, but it is far more cruel to take from them the understanding and knowledge that their own experience allows them to gain.

 

[apple0154]

If you have good credit, you get good rates. If you have bad credit, if you can get a loan at all, you pay higher rates. Thats the way things work. The bank makes more money for the higher risk.

Had the people paid their bills and not run up high credit card bills, they would be able to get better interest rates.

There have been interviews with people who have never missed one mortgage payment and their interest rate doubled their monthly payment.

 

[cawacko]

There have been interviews with people who have never missed one mortgage payment and their interest rate doubled their monthly payment.

yeah if you have a three year ARM and your three years are up your rate may double. You knew that though when you signed your original loan docs.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

There have been interviews with people who have never missed one mortgage payment and their interest rate doubled their monthly payment.

As wacko stated... that is what happens when you buy a home with an ARM when interest rates are near historical lows. When rates go back up and your reset occurs... odds are that you will have a higher payment.

For those with I-only loans, it could be that their payments did nearly double... though I would doubt that happened to too many people as rates did not increase that much.

 

[apple0154]

If the government stepped in before they needed help it wouldn't fix anything, it would just start the cycle sooner. The government isn't here to provide for you, and it never should be at the most it should be a safety net for when you fall into destitution. Roads and commodes man, not bills and food.

Most of the time the more compassionate route is to allow people to learn from their mistakes. It may seem cruel, but it is far more cruel to take from them the understanding and knowledge that their own experience allows them to gain.

We can not expect a more humane society when government does not act humanely. It is not a case of the government providing for people. It's a case of helping them.

As for learning from mistakes one does not have to lose their home to realize they should have read the fine print. The first repossession notice would do that.

The upside is as the educational level of the general population increases people will be less willing to accept being treated in such a fashion. It's one thing to have a high school drop-out accept he's not too bright and quite another to convince an educated individual they deserve the hard times they've fallen on.

Social programs will continue to increase because people are beginning to see the big picture. A dog-eat-dog world is fit for dogs.

 

[Damocles]

We can not expect a more humane society when government does not act humanely. It is not a case of the government providing for people. It's a case of helping them.

As for learning from mistakes one does not have to lose their home to realize they should have read the fine print. The first repossession notice would do that.

The upside is as the educational level of the general population increases people will be less willing to accept being treated in such a fashion. It's one thing to have a high school drop-out accept he's not too bright and quite another to convince an educated individual they deserve the hard times they've fallen on.

Social programs will continue to increase because people are beginning to see the big picture. A dog-eat-dog world is fit for dogs.

The government is not a person. It needs to act like a government and provide necessities, not like a parent and provide everything to all. The government isn't there to be your savior.

And again, nobody suggested it be "dog-eat-dog", that's your own silly straw man to battle because you cannot enter into an honest debate on the subject. Go back and re-read, tell me if I said the government shouldn't provide a safety net.... Let's see if you can be honest.

We can fully expect a humane society to understand the difference, even if you cannot.

 

[apple0154]

As wacko stated... that is what happens when you buy a home with an ARM when interest rates are near historical lows. When rates go back up and your reset occurs... odds are that you will have a higher payment.

For those with I-only loans, it could be that their payments did nearly double... though I would doubt that happened to too many people as rates did not increase that much.

Some people have seen their rate go from 4% to 8% even though interest rates have remained low. If one has not missed a mortgage payment and rates stay low there is no reason to increase their rate. It's a scam.

 

[apple0154]

The government is not a person. It needs to act like a government and provide necessities, not like a parent and provide everything to all. The government isn't there to be your savior.

And again, nobody suggested it be "dog-eat-dog", that's your own silly straw man to battle because you cannot enter into an honest debate on the subject. Go back and re-read, tell me if I said the government shouldn't provide a safety net.... Let's see if you can be honest.

We can fully expect a humane society to understand the difference, even if you cannot.

Why shouldn't governments help? The problem is the safety net comes along too late, after the people have lost everything.

It's not a matter of just giving to people. There can even be some sort of restitution later on. Many people live paycheck to paycheck and losing a job for a few months can mean losing everything they've worked for.

An example is unemployment benefits. There is usually a waiting period. That waiting period results in the person starting off behind in their financial responsibilities and they have to deal with creditors hounding them.

Start benefits from day one and keep the same qualifying period. At least the person can adjust.

The problem with waiting too long is the person loses initiative. They suffer such a great loss before the assistance kicks in. Is it any wonder they are not motivated? Is it any wonder why they try to cheat the system? Their government sat by and watched them lose everything before offering help.

Contrary to what we're frequently told people will strive to get ahead and better themselves. A healthy person is not going to choose a life on welfare but one who has lost everything has lost their drive. That is the "crime".

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Some people have seen their rate go from 4% to 8% even though interest rates have remained low. If one has not missed a mortgage payment and rates stay low there is no reason to increase their rate. It's a scam.

The ONLY way their rates could have gone up is if they have an ARM or interest only loan.

Not missing a payment is not sufficient to not get a raise.

While you are correct that rates on new loans are low now, that does not reflect the circumstances of those with existing loans. At least not to the extent that you seem to believe. The new rates are based on loan to value of the homes, the borrowers ability to repay it, as well as the current interest rate environment.

An example. A person bought a home for $350,000 with an ARM (or I-only) 3-5 years ago at 4% with 20% down. Then due to the fall in home values they saw the home drop 20% in value. Now all of the sudden upon rate reset the person who HAD 20% equity in the home now has ZERO equity.

That person's loan to value went from 80% to 100%. If they do not have the ability to add 20% equity, then that becomes a riskier loan. So while the person made payments on time and did not have income change, due to market conditions his situation just got a lot riskier. That alone will cause an interest rate increase.