In blow to freedom, Democrats in Michigan repeal Right-to-work

NiftyNiblick said:
A world without unions is a return to feudalism.

The absence of strong and effective labor unions in both the public and private sectors is a symptom of a society ripe for revolution.

If I'm sure of anything, I'm sure of that.
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No one is suggesting people can't join unions they just should not be forced to join unions.
 
Nordberg said:
Not true. there are lots of people in America who have been trained to believe unions are simply bad, and would blindly refuse to join. I had a discussion about unions with several mid-20s. They all hated unions, but they could not explain why. They just knew they are bad. They would gladly give up all their power to the owners.
Unions get no positive press. They are always bad in movies too.
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If unions did not behave badly the would get better press.

The guy that lived behind me was a supervisor for ATT he had a single mother of two that HAD to work when the company went on strike. Union thugs broke into her home and destroyed he belongings TV clothing etc. while she was at work. Typical Union thug crap. Shameful.
 
ExpressLane said:
If unions did not behave badly the would get better press.

The guy that lived behind me was a supervisor for ATT he had a single mother of two that HAD to work when the company went on strike. Union thugs broke into her home and destroyed he belongings TV clothing etc. while she was at work. Typical Union thug crap. Shameful.
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A buddy of mine works at Raytheon Tucson. A couple of years ago his union president (he's not in the union but there is one at the plant) called a strike over a new contract solely to prove to the national union leaders he had the stuff to move up in the union. The contract met all the union's demands and even some extras but this asshole struck so he could get higher up in the union. Fucked his members for personal gain.

Unions have a time and place, but both are vanishing rapidly.
 
guno said:
Despite what many CEO’s and right-wing politicians may say, unions created many benefits all Americans enjoy today. Becoming a union member is a step toward progress, find out what unions have created for our country:

The Weekend

In 1870, the average workweek for most Americans was 61 hours — almost double what most Americans work now. Yet in the late nineteenth century and the twentieth century, labor unions engaged in massive strikes in order to demand shorter workweeks so that Americans could be home with their loved ones instead of constantly toiling for their employers with no leisure time. By 1937, these labor actions created enough political momentum to pass the Fair Labor Standards Act, which helped create a federal framework for a shorter workweek that included room for leisure time.

End of Child Labor

“Union organizing and child labor reform were often intertwined” in U.S. history, with organization’s like the “National Consumers’ League” and the National Child Labor Committee” working together in the early 20th century to ban child labor. The very first American Federation of Labor (AFL) national convention passed “a resolution calling on states to ban children under 14 from all gainful employment” in 1881, and soon after states across the country adopted similar recommendations, leading up to the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act which regulated child labor on the federal level for the first time.

40 hour work week

“The rise of unions in the 1930′s and 1940′s led to the first great expansion of health care” for all Americans, as labor unions banded workers together to negotiate for health coverage plans from employers. In 1942, “the US set up a National War Labor Board. It had the power to set a cap on all wage increases. But it let employers circumvent the cap by offering “fringe benefits” – notably, health insurance.” By 1950, “half of all companies with fewer than 250 workers and two-thirds of all companies with more than 250 workers offered health insurance of one kind or another.”

8 hour work day

Unemployment Benefits

Workers Compensation Laws

Employer-Based Health Coverage

Family and Medical Leave Act
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Unfortunately, the union bosses got greedy after decades of doing the bidding of the worker. The graft and waste at the upper echelon of many unions continues to fester to this day.

Yet...they always point to ancient history when they actually did some good for the workers as reason to continue to pay them entirely too much money. They take union dues and burn that money at conventions, 'meetings' (read... alcohol and hookers) and company perks that anyone would kill for.


Many unions are impotent to guarantee any benefit to the members, while others get fantastic results. But they never want to give back during the ebbs and flows of normal business cycles. They sure gave back in '09 when the economy crashed, but that was in lieu of millions of job losses.

There is no question that all non union workers enjoy decent pay directly because of unions. People got complacent, while Republicans and Red states effectively started down the road to killing all unions. There is a middle ground somewhere.

The air traffic controllers gave Reagan plenty of ammunition to bust their union. They refused to listen to reason, believing that they had the upper hand.

History begs to differ.
 
Althea said:
Unfortunately, the union bosses got greedy after decades of doing the bidding of the worker. The graft and waste at the upper echelon of many unions continues to fester to this day.

Yet...they always point to ancient history when they actually did some good for the workers as reason to continue to pay them entirely too much money. They take union dues and burn that money at conventions, 'meetings' (read... alcohol and hookers) and company perks that anyone would kill for.


Many unions are impotent to guarantee any benefit to the members, while others get fantastic results. But they never want to give back during the ebbs and flows of normal business cycles. They sure gave back in '09 when the economy crashed, but that was in lieu of millions of job losses.

There is no question that all non union workers enjoy decent pay directly because of unions. People got complacent, while Republicans and Red states effectively started down the road to killing all unions. There is a middle ground somewhere.

The air traffic controllers gave Reagan plenty of ammunition to bust their union. They refused to listen to reason, believing that they had the upper hand.

History begs to differ.
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That's called business unionism

Internal organization
One major characteristic of "business unionism" is the principle that unions should be run like businesses. These unions would be organized as top-down hierarchies, with dedicated employees paid in a stratified way.[6] Business unionism creates a centralized bureaucracy that is independent from and unaccountable to the union rank and file.[7] The "union rep", who earns more than the union workers, is a key element of this structure.[8]

According to this model, the main 'battleground' for organized labour moves from the shop floor to the boardroom, where well-paid business leaders of the union negotiate with well-paid bosses of the company.[9]

Craft unionism
The members of a union's identity is defined by their craft. Craftsmen involved in the metal and building trades did help set a positive image for their companies.[10] They feel a solidarity towards their fellow co-workers as opposed to the greater working class. The unions adopt an exclusive policy as opposed to inclusive one. This can cause a fragmentation of workers. The unions are more inclined to fight against reorganization of work by their employers.[11] Business unions are sometimes not inclined to expand their membership and organize outside workers.[12] Union leaders shared a form of populism that spoke to three key groups of people-- patriotic producers, wage earners, and guardians of basic rights.[10]
 
guno said:
That's called business unionism

Internal organization
One major characteristic of "business unionism" is the principle that unions should be run like businesses. These unions would be organized as top-down hierarchies, with dedicated employees paid in a stratified way.[6] Business unionism creates a centralized bureaucracy that is independent from and unaccountable to the union rank and file.[7] The "union rep", who earns more than the union workers, is a key element of this structure.[8]

According to this model, the main 'battleground' for organized labour moves from the shop floor to the boardroom, where well-paid business leaders of the union negotiate with well-paid bosses of the company.[9]

Craft unionism
The members of a union's identity is defined by their craft. Craftsmen involved in the metal and building trades did help set a positive image for their companies.[10] They feel a solidarity towards their fellow co-workers as opposed to the greater working class. The unions adopt an exclusive policy as opposed to inclusive one. This can cause a fragmentation of workers. The unions are more inclined to fight against reorganization of work by their employers.[11] Business unions are sometimes not inclined to expand their membership and organize outside workers.[12] Union leaders shared a form of populism that spoke to three key groups of people-- patriotic producers, wage earners, and guardians of basic rights.[10]
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It gets hard to keep up with unions. My father was a Teamster, although he was a car salesman. Unions are happy to take on all members, including county workers that have absolutely nothing to do with trucking. Also Teamsters.

My arborist friends are part of the electrical workers union, because their companies get contracts to clear power lines.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Sure, some corporations don't play nice. But you seem to think workers are powerless on their own to negotiate with any corporation. Unions can be just as bad as corporations and leave workers just as powerless. Aside from that, in modern times there's more to a job, particularly one you want to make a career of, than just pay and benefits. Unions and union leaders that think in terms of just protecting members current jobs while getting them more pay and benefits to do the same thing are dinosaurs in today's economy.
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Name a corporation that plays nice, Terry. They are soulless money engines. The humans who work for a corporation have a fiduciary duty to make money for their investors. That's all they care about. What naive dumbass believes they are there for their employees?
 
ExpressLane said:
No one is suggesting people can't join unions they just should not be forced to join unions.
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The way it works is unions have to fight for all employees. They cannot just serve the one who pay dues. So a lot of people want the protections and to keep a few bucks in their pockets. You are not forced.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Too bad for them. If the union was clearly worth joining, they would have no problem getting people to voluntarily sign up.
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Not true. The perks earned in the past by unions are considered normal working conditions now. Everyone wants the benefits, but many don't want to pay.

If you could go to one gas station and get gas for free, or go across the street and pay for gas, which station would you choose?

You cannot go to the 'for pay' station and demand free gas. That one is across the street.

Of course you have no idea if it's really gasoline, but you certainly have the right to find out.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Why should workers who don't pays dues or equivalent non-member fees get the union benefits, the acquisition of which was accomplished despite their obstruction.
The only thing assholes like that deserve is a good fucking beating in the parking lot until they decide to work someplace else.
That's the way it has to be for workplace justice to exist.
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this is definitely advocating violence. I called the fbi.
 
floridafan said:
such bull shit!
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Not at all. As a small business and being the owner/manager/HR/CFO/etc. his hands were already completely tied. He simply didn’t have the time to deal,with some outside union boss/thug in any labor negotiations that come up annually. He was already paying his employees better than union anyway.
Nope, just another example of how unions can backfire on their members.
Alaska is an “at will” state. Unionization would have negated that according to my buddy.
As a former small business owner myself I can’t tell you how well that streamlines getting rid of shit employees that are a drain on the business.
 
anonymoose said:
Not at all. As a small business and being the owner/manager/HR/CFO/etc. his hands were already completely tied. He simply didn’t have the time to deal,with some outside union boss/thug in any labor negotiations that come up annually. He was already paying his employees better than union anyway.
Nope, just another example of how unions can backfire on their members.
Alaska is an “at will” state. Unionization would have negated that according to my buddy.
As a former small business owner myself I can’t tell you how well that streamlines getting rid of shit employees that are a drain on the business.
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We will post this under the "total fiction, and lots of bullshit" category.
 
floridafan said:
We will post this under the "total fiction, and lots of bullshit" category.
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You obviously never had a business, much less employees.
That’s the top of the food chain which you’ve never come close to so I can understand why you have zero understanding, being someone who’s several notches below that.
I’m not saying all unions are bad just giving an example of how they can do more harm to those they’re supposedly trying to help.
 
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