house passes health care bill 220-215

signalmankenneth said:
This will probably be the last good chance to past a national healthcare bill, the cost 1.2 trillion dollars, but it's best to pay it now, as in todays dollars, because if your try this again in ten or fifthteen years from now, the cost will be five to ten trillion dollars or even more! No one should die in this country due to lack of healthcare coverage! Healthcare cost or lack there of, has wiped out many peoples savings and driven them into bankruptcy, That's why you need that public option, to keep cost down!
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LOL Today's dollars or tomorrow's? WTF are you talking about?
 
Cypress said:
I find the high-fiving and back patting of the Democratic leadership, and some progressive media to be ridiculous. While this bill is better than nothing, it’s a POS from a progressive standpoint.

None of the liberal high fivers in most of the lefty media are mentioning that 69 jack ass democrats voted for the anti-choice Stupak amendment. Which effectively puts the government in charge of limiting or denying insurance payments for elective abortions. WTF? As far as I can tell, this is the most anti-choice piece of legislation the federal government has enacted since Roe. I don’t even think rightwing Ronnie, or Dubya were able to push through restrictions on reproductive choice to this extent. Are you freaking kidding me? A completely legal medical procedure, singled out and restrictions put in place to keep insurance companies from covering it? That some rightwing Christian Taliban crap right there. Can you fucking imagine if these legislators voted to restrict male fertility treatments or Viagra coverage? There would be hell to pay.

As for the public option, I haven’t been able to digest it all, but based on sources I trust, that crap got watered down to the point of being nearly meaningless. And only 219 Democrats could be coaxed into voting for a lame, watered down healthcare reform bill.

On a positive note, as I understand it, the bill will take away the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Which is cool. I know from experience that that shit fucks over millions of Americans, and it’s hard to believe that immorality of this extent was allowed to exist this long.
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LOL cypress wishes more fetuses could be terminated!!
 
Taichiliberal said:
Got news for you, insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws...which alters your analogy here. And the gov't option is an OPTION by the federal gov't, NOT a corporate plan. If you like you plan, keep it. And if you change jobs, you can keep the same plan....something a LOT of companies don't allow.
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Yes, I am quite aware that the POLITICIANS granted them anti-trust exemptions..... THAT is the GOVERNMENT at work for you.

It is NOT the company a person works for that doesn't 'allow' you to keep the plan. It is the SYSTEM. A SYSTEM that sets up 'corporate' plans to begin with.

As mentioned, we don't have 'corporate' auto insurance plans or mortgage insurance plans. Why do we do so for health care? Oh, thats right... because the idiots in DC (both parties) allow the insurance companies to bribe (but they call it 'lobby') them into allowing them exemption from anti-trust. They bribe the politicians to create the monstrosities that are HMO's.

Health care costs began their ever increasing cost spiral when the idiots in DC decided to make health insurance costs deductible for corporations, but not for individuals. When Medicare was created, costs further escalated as seniors went in for anything and everything because they no longer had to 'pay' for it. People have a natural tendency to spend more when it is not coming directly from their pocket.
 
Yurt said:
it is an interesting question....auto ins. is mandated, yet, i believe the issue there is driving is not considered a right, it is a privilege....

if we do have to purchase the ins., i hope that the costs of ins. go way down instead of way up as i've seen some people claim will happen, especially since you cannot be denied or charged more for a preexisting condition or any other factors....

also, isn't the public option available only to a very small percentage? that is a travesty if so....
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Technically speaking. I don't think access to health care is considered a right, though it probably should be.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Which is tantamount to saying it's DOA in the Senate. They won't touch this next year. The political consequences are to steep for Senators running for re-election in 2010.
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I think Obama may pressure them to pass something this year. But the odds of them passing something AND reconciling it with the House version this year is slim to none in my opinion... and good ole slim is trotting out the door as we speak.

I agree, the odds of them doing anything if it falls into 2010 are nil.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Technically speaking. I don't think access to health care is considered a right, though it probably should be.
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That's the rub. Are people really considered free, and in pursuit of life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, if they are one serious illness away from bankruptcy?
 
Damocles said:
Yes.
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Well, we certainly disagree on that.

I think if people work hard, they have a right to decent healthcare. At the very least, people who work hard & actually pay for a plan, should have the right to decent healthcare, and to not expect a denial of coverage based on a quota.

If you can be ruined when you simply get sick or injured, I don't find that acceptable.
 
Onceler said:
Well, we certainly disagree on that.

I think if people work hard, they have a right to decent healthcare. At the very least, people who work hard & actually pay for a plan, should have the right to decent healthcare, and to not expect a denial of coverage based on a quota.

If you can be ruined when you simply get sick or injured, I don't find that acceptable.
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I agree. I don't care if people have to spend every last penny they make to pay for insurance. They can live in apartment instead of a house if they can't can't get a good job with insurance. Losers. Fuck them.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Technically speaking. I don't think access to health care is considered a right, though it probably should be.
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LOL~~~EVERYONE DOES have access to health care. What you really mean is that the government (meaning tax paying American's) should be footing the bill for that access.

I won't go into detail, but I personally know someone whose medical bills were paid for to the tune of over 4 hundred k via charitable donations to a medical university....this happens in this country everyday. Just read up on the philanthropy of Children's hospitals across this country. Obama himself already stated what the biggest problem with health care is with regards to costs....Medi Care!!!! That's right folks the government run health care program, not emergency room care, but government care.
 
All I know is we pay a shit load of tax if you add it all up and we get jack shit in return. Comparatively Ireland (since i just visited) pays about the same amount of taxes (after u add in all our local and property taxes) and get free health care and free college not to mention way less working.
 
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