We have been played for fools.

Stone said:
Did ANYONE ever believe that NATO was ever going to actually BOOTS ON THE GROUND enter the war? :laugh: NEVER was an option. You cant put the entire west at risk of being nuked into the ground for ANY reason and surely not Ukraine. All one has to do is simply project forward and ask yourself.......Can Ukraine beat Russia in an all out war even if we supply them with some weapons? No,.... of course they cant. There was no other possible ending under those guidelines. So then WHY? Why didnt they simply negotiate peace from the start when we all already KNOW how this shit show is going to turn out? Because they wanted it to turn out this way. They wanted Ukraine on ashes. Only way to make money. DUMMIES.
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You were the kid who let the bullies win in junior high, weren't you?

How often did you let your lunch money be taken from you?
 
Stone said:
Not me of course,....I tried to warn you. In the end Russia is making MASSIVE BANK from oil sales ,...AND...most likely will end up with a large swath of Ukraine. This is how it goes in most wars,...a negotiated peace. That means give and take btw. Meaning,...by the time all the negotiations are complete Russia will be ADDING land,...not losing land.

BIG WINNERS so far? China and Russia. China has been buying up as much Russian oil as they could get their hands on, and AT A DISCOUNT. :| And Russia is Rolling in money.
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cheap oil for India too, while sanctions give us high energy prices and inflated grocery costs from fuel
Farmers are getting hit by the Russian fertilizers shortages..and for what??

I told everyone this war was not ours, but we pay the price.
Zelensky is still madly claiming "victory is just around the corner"
 
Stone said:
Did ANYONE ever believe that NATO was ever going to actually BOOTS ON THE GROUND enter the war? NEVER was an option. You cant put the entire west at risk of being nuked into the ground for ANY reason and surely not Ukraine. All one has to do is simply project forward and ask yourself.......Can Ukraine beat Russia in an all out war even if we supply them with some weapons? No,.... of course they cant. There was no other possible ending under those guidelines. So then WHY? Why didnt they simply negotiate peace from the start when we all already KNOW how this shit show is going to turn out? Because they wanted it to turn out this way. They wanted Ukraine on ashes. Only way to make money. DUMMIES.
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these asshats would have Ukraine in NATO and YES we'd have boots on the ground.
Biden had a chance to negotiate (Lavrov letters) -he and Blinken blew it off
 
Stone said:
Of course he didnt. But,......IMO anything short of boots on the ground and birds in the air would merely extend the suffering only to end up in the very same place. The destruction of much of Ukraine. There was never going to be american Cruise missiles fired from our war ships or any NATO boots on the ground or Air bombardment. Without those things Ukraine simply cannot win. So....WHY? Its not like we dont have some very bright people spending their days gaming out every possible situation,....because we do. These are the conditions, these are the variables, how does it end? The KNOW to a certainty how it ends before a single shot is fired.
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because UKRAINE IS NOT THE REASON FOR US WEAPONIZATION OF THE WAR.

DEGRADING RUSSIA is the reason now (Austin)
It became a proxy war as soon as we decided Ukraine gets advanced NATO weapons
 
Stone said:
No! I wanted a "negotiated peace" . Remember THAT term? The left USED to be real big on it. Unless of course we get involved in the war INDUSTRY when one of their own is in power that is. Then,..somehow.....its just goes right out of their minds. POOF....gone. Only to return when an R is in office. Like clockwork.
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cant have that. we are in it to kill Russians
 
Stone said:
This fall and again in 24 the record will show that we will have spent countless billions on a fruitless war in eastern Europe which was designed to fail from the beginning. The war will end up giving Russia a bit more land and a bounty of oil money,...China our main enemy, will be basking in the glory of literally swimming in cheap discounted oil that they NEED. Meanwhile our own people suffer at the pump as low wage workers get to decide between food " if they can find it" and filling their tanks with gas so they can even get to their jobs. Yeah,........thats quite a platform you guys have built for yourselves to run on. :laugh: Good luck with ALL THAT.
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we get infaltion, food shortages and more money for the MIC
China gets cheap gas, India goes along for the ride. we get stuck holding out the moneybag
 
I don't understand this thread. The Ukraine conflict is kind of a no-brainer moral decision. There is right, and there is wrong.

We did what we could. If NATO or the U.S. put boots on the ground or actively fought in any way, it could have set the world on fire. Our response was measured and appropriate. I'll never support the idea that we should have done nothing.
 
BartenderElite said:
I don't understand this thread. The Ukraine conflict is kind of a no-brainer moral decision. There is right, and there is wrong.

We did what we could. If NATO or the U.S. put boots on the ground or actively fought in any way, it could have set the world on fire. Our response was measured and appropriate. I'll never support the idea that we should have done nothing.
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pathetic. go to war on some specious morality
War is always "wrong" morally -it's what happens when you dont do diplomacy
(war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy) or set up long festering conflict by superpower meddling (Maidan)
 
dukkha said:
pathetic. go to war on some specious morality
War is always "wrong" morally -it's what happens when you dont do diplomacy
(war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy) or set up long festering conflict by superpower meddling (Maidan)
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I completely ignore your posts on this topic.
 
Stone said:
No! I wanted a "negotiated peace" . Remember THAT term? The left USED to be real big on it. Unless of course we get involved in the war INDUSTRY when one of their own is in power that is. Then,..somehow.....its just goes right out of their minds. POOF....gone. Only to return when an R is in office. Like clockwork.
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Nothing Putin says can be trusted. Kyiv does not believe he will stop his ultimate goal of turning Ukraine into a vassal state, even if you give him territorial concessions.

Supposedly, Putin was supposed to be happy with just getting Crimea in 2014.

When was this mythical time that Democrats supported negotiation in the face of blatant aggression and invasion?

Nearly every war the last century was led by Democrats against authoritarian nations which engaged in brutal invasions of their neighbors.

It's not up to you to decide for Ukrainians if they should fight. The people of the east Slavic republics are hardened by history and culture, and their pain tolerance is quite high. The past 4 months have proved to me just how soft and weak Americans, particularly conservatives, are.
 
Cypress said:
You were the kid who let the bullies win in junior high, weren't you?

How often did you let your lunch money be taken from you?
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:laugh:


Remember I said there are no half measures in war? Then LETS ROLL. Lets commit NATO to a full on war in Eastern Europe and to the victor goes the spoils. You up for THAT? Yes or no. I would be more on board with THAT then I would with this half step road to nowhere bullshit trail that we have chosen. Its either COMMIT and get it over with,....or stay out. One or the other. This shit were doing is only getting more people killed only to end up with Ukraine in rubble anyway.
 
Stone said:
:laugh:


Remember I said there are no half measures in war? Then LETS ROLL. Lets commit NATO to a full on war in Eastern Europe and to the victor goes the spoils. You up for THAT? Yes or no. I would be more on board with THAT then I would with this half step road to nowhere bullshit trail that we have chosen. Its either COMMIT and get it over with,....or stay out. One or the other. This shit were doing is only getting more people killed only to end up with Ukraine in rubble anyway.
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It's not even accurate to call it a "half measure." We're not at war with Russia. But we're helping a country defend itself against an illegal aggressor, as much as we can.

The above is an extremely simplistic approach to world affairs.
 
moon said:
Chalk and cheese- as I've told you before. The Jewish fascists want to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the Palestinians and erase them from history. The Russians simply want a neutral, Nazi-free, buffer state.

Don't come back with that stupid comparison again.
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You were practically giddy posting threads that the notorious Islamophobe Marie Le Pen had a chance at winning France's election.

There isn't a doubt in the world if La Pen had won, you would have been doing a victory dance on this forum.

I don't think you are a friend or ally to Muslim Arabs in the least.
 
Cypress said:
You and a lot of other Trump supporters wanted Ukrainians to surrender practically on day one of the invasion, so it is hardly surprising that you would again counsel submission and surrender.
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you can't deny that was Biden's original plan as well.....same was when Obama gave Crimea to Putin........
 
Cypress said:
Your posting history includes support for a notorious French Islamophobe, so you are no advocate for Palestinian Arabs, you might even be their enemy given your affinity for the La Pen candidacy.
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You keep regurgitating that lie and can't back it up when pressed . What does that make you ?
 
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