There are 120 guns for every 100 Americans

The logical solution is to ban war machines from public consumption.

An AR15 isn't a war machine dumbass. Now you can make that argument for an M16. I wish leftist were better educated and informed. Really I do.

Of course, you think the logical course are more laws which no criminal ever cared about. Now that is the definition of stupid.
:palm:
 
The problem with the analogy is that's not how laboratories work -- random, unstructured behavior. Real experiments have control groups, for instance, so that there's a meaningful way to interpret results.

I'm talking about something that would function more like a real scientific experiment....
The experiments do have a structure; the Constitution of the United States of America. It's pretty good reading. Check it out: https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

Wow. Sorry, but that sounds a little too Mengelish for me. Forcing people to live under a system they didn't sign up for is wrong. It's one thing to have a fair vote on the matter, but most of that should be local, not Federal. It's another to force all Americans to do it or else.

Sorry about clipping your posts. Call me lazy but I don't do text walls. Short and succinct works better for my catlike attention span. TIA
 
I'm not clear what your argument here is. If anything, Roberti-Roos is a very clear COUNTER-argument to the slippery-slope argument, since the premise is if we take a step in a particular direction, we won't be able to stop ourselves from sliding ever further in that direction. Roberti-Roos not only didn't lead further in that direction, but it was outright overturned, meaning the subsequent movement was in the OPPOSITE direction.... something that would have been impossible if it had been the "slippery slope" that people were claiming.
EVENTUALLY overturned.........it took 32 years. In that time, what was promised wouldn't happen, happened. registration led to confiscation

I'd need to be convinced it was a failure, first. As I recall, that passed in 1990, right? So, were shootings in school zones more or less common before 1990? I haven't seen a comprehensive look at pre-1990 school-zone shootings.
:chuckle:
 
Hello Lurch,

In my opinion, there is no need to amend the constitution. No amendment was needed for the Brady bill. We just need to pass some sensible gun laws, man! And we need to get those ARs off the street.

I believe we will do it, too. Uvalde accelerated this process, I believe.

Columbine happened with the AWB in place.
 
Hello Dutch,

Please explain how it's an exaggeration of your statement:

Because in order to have gun safety we are going to have to require gun owners to pass a psyche test, register their guns, and conform to new regulations. That is allowing the power of the government to work for we the people in the interest of safety. It is not giving absolute power to the government.
 
Hello Lurch,

The thing is, I really don't think the US has to go that far.. just anything that should be in a military arsenal, should not be in the hands of the GP.

I don't think so either, but if gun enthusiasts do not agree to some kind of effective compromise it warrants going further; doing what nations that have solved this problem have already done.
 
Hello Dutch,

Ramos didn't have an "automatic weapon". When you are either lying, mistaken or simply engaging in hyperbole, it undermines your argument as untrustworthy. Sure, the RWNJs, especially the Trumpian fellatists, do the same thing. I don't trust them either. :)

You and I can agree that murder is wrong. What we are disagreeing upon is the solution: You want to treat all gun owners like a future Ramos or Gendron. I want to make mental health care as routine as annual checkups and vaccinations.

I don't care if the weapon was automatic or not. The carnage must end. If your solution can be enacted and it works, we're good. If not, more will have to be done.
 
You're next, fuckface. You're an even bigger mess than dumbass over there -- at least he doesn't fully understand what he's doing.

Next for what, Granny? Or will you be showing everyone the White Feather when it comes to specifying your bullshit?

Looking forward to your reply, Dutch

6i9l2b.jpg
 
The experiments do have a structure; the Constitution of the United States of America. It's pretty good reading.

No. It's fucking horrible reading. If you want a lesson in piss-poor legal drafting, you could hardly pick a better document. Take the infamous second amendment as an example. It was drafted so badly that half this country thinks the first 13 out of 27 words --nearly half the amendment-- are utterly meaningless and without legal effect.... the rhetorical equivalent of clearing one's throat. If you wanted to draft something that would clearly be understood at relating only to militias, you'd draft it one way; if you wanted to draft something that would clearly be understood as an individual right, without regard to militia membership, you'd draft it another. They went for something in the middle and ended up with nothing but legal ambiguity. Meanwhile, they drafted it in the passive voice, so it's not even clear who, exactly, is being prohibited from infringing. Just the federal government? The federal government and the states? Local government, too? Private individuals? The first amendment is arguably even worse, since it, by its wording, only restricts Congress, and so would allow, say, executive orders, executive-agency regulations, state and local governments, courts, and anyone else to restrict those rights. It's really amateurish stuff.

Wow. Sorry, but that sounds a little too Mengelish for me.

We conduct these "experiments" all the time -- they're just not scientifically rigorous or controlled.... which is actually far more like Mengele. It's pseudo-science driven by ideology, just like him, rather than an open-minded attempt to discover the truth.

but most of that should be local, not Federal

Why?

Sorry about clipping your posts. Call me lazy but I don't do text walls.

No worries. Such laziness is commonplace these days.
 
Hello Lurch,



Columbine happened with the AWB in place.

And then the ACTUAL THING that happened after Columbine the gun lobby all got together that and had a soul search. They were having a crisis of conscience. They could have been part of the solution, by encouraging safety , not marketing to kids, etc.

Guess which way they decided to go after Columbine? You guessed it.. pure evil.

By the way, there were TWO Columbine shooters, my friend. They killed multiple innocents before turning the guns on themselves.

You gun enthusiasts always try to bully people into your camp. Not gonna work with me, Tiger.
 
Hello Lurch,



I don't think so either, but if gun enthusiasts do not agree to some kind of effective compromise it warrants going further; doing what nations that have solved this problem have already done.

I willing to go as far as we have to. I'm not a Republican.
 
Hello Dutch,

Because in order to have gun safety we are going to have to require gun owners to pass a psyche test, register their guns, and conform to new regulations. That is allowing the power of the government to work for we the people in the interest of safety. It is not giving absolute power to the government.

I'm good with that as long as all other rights require a psyche test too. In fact, I prefer it. :thup:

Once the precedent is set, that's what is most likely to happen. A line can be drawn between the Democrat efforts to chip away at the Constitution in general (and ban guns in particular) and the Republican efforts to chip away at the Constitution in favor of an Evangelical code.

My best advice is to work more on preserving rights instead of taking them away.
 
No. It's fucking horrible reading. If you want a lesson in piss-poor legal drafting, you could hardly pick a better document. Take the infamous second amendment as an example. It was drafted so badly that half this country thinks the first 13 out of 27 words --nearly half the amendment-- are utterly meaningless and without legal effect.... the rhetorical equivalent of clearing one's throat. If you wanted to draft something that would clearly be understood at relating only to militias, you'd draft it one way; if you wanted to draft something that would clearly be understood as an individual right, without regard to militia membership, you'd draft it another. They went for something in the middle and ended up with nothing but legal ambiguity. Meanwhile, they drafted it in the passive voice, so it's not even clear who, exactly, is being prohibited from infringing. Just the federal government? The federal government and the states? Local government, too? Private individuals? The first amendment is arguably even worse, since it, by its wording, only restricts Congress, and so would allow, say, executive orders, executive-agency regulations, state and local governments, courts, and anyone else to restrict those rights. It's really amateurish stuff.



We conduct these "experiments" all the time -- they're just not scientifically rigorous or controlled.... which is actually far more like Mengele. It's pseudo-science driven by ideology, just like him, rather than an open-minded attempt to discover the truth.



Why?



No worries. Such laziness is commonplace these days.

Sorry, I'm not a lawyer. Lawyers are like toilet paper; necessary at times but best disposed of quickly when no longer needed.

Regardless, you're evading the point: there's a structure. A structure good enough for the past 21 decades. Why is it suddenly a disaster now? We're the world's richest and most powerful nation. What did our Founders do so wrong in your opinion?
 
An AR15 isn't a war machine dumbass. Now you can make that argument for an M16. I wish leftist were better educated and informed. Really I do.

Of course, you think the logical course are more laws which no criminal ever cared about. Now that is the definition of stupid.
:palm:

Lol. You hunting rabbits with an AR15?
 
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