Kiev remains unbowed

Joe Capitalist said:
Here in America, we love freedom, we love liberty, we love democracy.
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See a psychiatrist.
 
Matt Dillon said:
So you think Russia won't overrun Kiev?...
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Ukraine is fighting for their sovereignty. Even if Kiev fell, the war would go on. However, Putin has to be feeling heat from all sides and it will only get hotter the longer this lasts. He does strike me as irrational. If I can see it, so can every military and political leader in Russia.

The Ukrainians need to hang on for as long as possible. Kiev is a symbol of the government but it's not true that if Kiev falls, so falls Ukraine. It's about having an organized political and military structure worthy of a nation. Capitols have moved before in times of war. It may happen here too.
 
Russian-speaking Kharkiv in eastern Ukraine is fighting like demons against Putin's army, despite being surrounded, besieged, and indiscriminately shelled.

It demostrates the lie Vlad attempted to propogate that Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine would welcome Putin's armies as liberators.
 
I corresponded with a friend of mine in Kiev this a.m.

They're all sitting in the bomb shelters while Vlad's army is shelling the city.
 
guno said:
What does Putin think he will accomplish, he will not be able to pacify the Ukrainian population
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he will hang Zelensky and insert a puppet. Then he will exploit the products that Ukrainian workers and farmers make. He will take the money coming in as his own. I have read for years that he is the richest man on the planet. But the super-wealthy never have enough. They will take someone else's.
 
guno said:
What does Putin think he will accomplish, he will not be able to pacify the Ukrainian population
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He doesn't have any viable face-saving strategy I can see, so it seems like he is going to order increasingly indiscriminate destruction to try to bring the resistance to heel.
 
Kyiv region "liberated" from Russian forces, senior Ukrainian defense official says

Hanna Maliar, Ukraine's deputy defense minister, said Saturday that the Kyiv region had been "liberated" from Russian forces.

She said in a post on Facebook that Bucha, Irpin, Hostomel and "the whole Kyiv region was liberated from the invader."

CNN could not immediately verify that the entire Kyiv region had been cleared of Russian troops by Ukrainian forces, but the Ukrainian military has in recent days regained control of suburbs around the capital, which has remained under government control. The Russian military has said it is "de-escalating" around Kyiv.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-2-22/index.html
 
moon said:
The Russians halted while Putin addressed the Ukrainian army with an offer of negotiations- without Zelensky.
Now it's back on.
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They didn't generously halt the advance on Kiev to offer negotiations.

The Russian offensive against Kiev was defeated, driven back, and the Russian forces had to beat a retreat back to Belarus.
 
Cypress said:
They didn't generously halt the advance on Kiev to offer negotiations.

The Russian offensive against Kiev was defeated, driven back, and the Russian forces had to beat a retreat back to Belarus.
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You might see it that way- but the massing of troops to defend Kiev allowed the Russians to consolidate their defense of the eastern republics.
Also- there really were efforts to have the Ukrainian army dump Zelensky. It should have done.
 
moon said:
You might see it that way- but the massing of troops to defend Kiev allowed the Russians to consolidate their defense of the eastern republics.
Also- there really were efforts to have the Ukrainian army dump Zelensky. It should have done.
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So you have belatedly decided Putin purposefully lost the Battle of Kyiv as part of a brilliant broader military strategy.
 
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