NATO’s reckless, self-contradictory post-Cold War development

[anatta]

Just listen to how confusing NATO’s approach is.
It boasts of its decision last week to pour more weapons into the conflict zone, building on NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg’s pledge to Ukraine to do ‘all it takes to protect and defend all allies’.
And yet it claims it doesn’t want to get involved in the conflict for fear of escalating it.


The contradictions of NATO’s approach are myriad, but they have a clear, root cause:
Western powers have continually, almost unwittingly, stoked a conflict with Russia they do not want to fight. And now, thanks to Putin’s barbaric attempt to erase Ukraine’s nationhood, they find themselves engaged in a war they don’t want to wage.

None of this has been conscious or part of a deliberate strategy.
No, this incoherence is the product of NATO’s reckless, self-contradictory post-Cold War development – an unwittingly offensive expansion of a supposedly defensive military alliance.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/29/the-incoherence-at-the-heart-of-nato/

 

[anatta]

it developed at pace during the 2000s, as former Soviet republics were also brought into the NATO fold. And all the while this expansion was aggravating the Russian threat, by intensifying the national chauvinism and militarism of Russia’s increasingly insecure ruling clique.
NATO has had to manage the Russian threat its own actions have created through the increasing militarisation of its ever expanding eastern borders. Which of course has only further inflamed tensions – with each response to Russia’s own military reinforcement prompting a counter-response. And so a conflict has steadily simmered, before Russia’s naked act of aggression brought it to boiling point last month.

Ukraine has long been at the centre of this growing antagonism.
Russian diplomats, and many Western diplomats too, had always warned, from the collapse of the USSR onwards, that Ukraine becoming part of NATO was a ‘red line’ for Russia. But that didn’t stop Western leaders from flirting with the prospect, as part of the logic of NATO’s European expansion. So in 1994, Ukraine became the first post-Soviet country to conclude a framework agreement with NATO in the shape of the Partnership for Peace initiative. At a NATO enlargement summit in 2002, Western leaders came up with a NATO-Ukraine Action Plan. And at the Bucharest summit of 2008, NATO explicitly declared that Ukraine would become a member.

on the eve of the Russian invasion, and 14 years on from that infamous declaration, NATO was still yet to give Ukraine an official ‘membership action plan’ – the formal procedure that leads to NATO membership. There have always been conditions that Ukraine has to meet, reforms it has to undertake. As recently as last June, for instance, Stoltenberg said that Ukrainian politicians ‘had to continue to modernise and refine their defence and security institutions, civilian-political control over their security services, and [fight] corruption’.

So NATO’s door has always been open to Ukraine. But it’s always been shut, too.

NATO’s incoherent approach to the war in Ukraine has a clear precedent, then, in its incoherent approach to the question of Ukraine’s NATO membership. And for the same reason – because NATO is always stoking conflict with Russia with one hand, while gesturing its unwillingness to fight with the other. So having tempted successive Ukrainian governments with the prospect of NATO membership, NATO has baulked at the potential consequences – especially after Moscow showed its aggressive intent by annexing Crimea in 2014.

 

[anatta]

NATO has come towards Ukraine, while simultaneously backing away from it – as it still appears to be doing right now. Yes, the carrot of NATO membership is still being dangled. Even as Russian tanks amassed on the Ukrainian border two months ago, US secretary of state Antony Blinken was still holding the door open.
But few, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky included, think Ukraine will ever be allowed to enter.

 

[Cypress]

Just listen to how confusing NATO’s approach is.
It boasts of its decision last week to pour more weapons into the conflict zone, building on NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg’s pledge to Ukraine to do ‘all it takes to protect and defend all allies’.
And yet it claims it doesn’t want to get involved in the conflict for fear of escalating it.


The contradictions of NATO’s approach are myriad, but they have a clear, root cause:
Western powers have continually, almost unwittingly, stoked a conflict with Russia they do not want to fight. And now, thanks to Putin’s barbaric attempt to erase Ukraine’s nationhood, they find themselves engaged in a war they don’t want to wage.

None of this has been conscious or part of a deliberate strategy.
No, this incoherence is the product of NATO’s reckless, self-contradictory post-Cold War development – an unwittingly offensive expansion of a supposedly defensive military alliance.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/29/the-incoherence-at-the-heart-of-nato/

Vlad Putin just proved why democratic European nations need to ally together in a defensive security arrangement.

Vlad is a liar, an aggressor, and a war criminal.

We need to beef up NATO combat forces in the Baltic states, in Poland, and we need to accept Ukranian, Finnish, and Swedish NATO membership whenever they choose to request it.

Putin's Russia is a rogue nation currently responsible for the worst war crimes seen in Europe since Adolph Hitler.

 

[BartenderElite]

This sounds a lot like an excuse-making thread for Putin.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Just listen to how confusing NATO’s approach is.
It boasts of its decision last week to pour more weapons into the conflict zone, building on NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg’s pledge to Ukraine to do ‘all it takes to protect and defend all allies’.
And yet it claims it doesn’t want to get involved in the conflict for fear of escalating it.


The contradictions of NATO’s approach are myriad, but they have a clear, root cause:
Western powers have continually, almost unwittingly, stoked a conflict with Russia they do not want to fight. And now, thanks to Putin’s barbaric attempt to erase Ukraine’s nationhood, they find themselves engaged in a war they don’t want to wage.

None of this has been conscious or part of a deliberate strategy.
No, this incoherence is the product of NATO’s reckless, self-contradictory post-Cold War development – an unwittingly offensive expansion of a supposedly defensive military alliance.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/29/the-incoherence-at-the-heart-of-nato/

 

[anatta]

Vlad Putin just proved why democratic European nations need to ally together in a defensive security arrangement.

Vlad is a liar, an aggressor, and a war criminal.

We need to beef up NATO combat forces in the Baltic states, in Poland, and we need to accept Ukranian, Finnish, and Swedish NATO membership whenever they choose to request it.

Putin's Russia is a rogue nation currently responsible for the worst war crimes seen in Europe since Adolph Hitler.

Godwin's law award winner !

No we dont need to "beef up NATO" you sound like a neocon.
What's the chance Russia would move on ANY NATO state? less then zero.. zip. nada.

The US in particular has to "beef up"the western Pacific.
Eastern Europe is a needless drain on our military resources

FFSsake jamming up Russia even further is a recipe for another war if anything
Even Zelensky gets this

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Trump campaigned in 2020 to end our US obligations to NATO thinking it would dissolve NATO and for one reason- BECAUSE POOTY POOT wanted him to- and in turn Trump wanted his little Pooty Poot to help him win future elections and also to help himself Financially through Russian lending Institutions!

And so now we know why Trump and his little Pooty Poot had such aspirations for each other. WE ACTUALLY HAVE KNOWN THIS ALL ALONG!

And so now TRUMPTARDS like Anatta are still trying to do Trump and Pooty's dirty work for them by trying to legitimize Trump and Pooty's conspiracy to SHUT DOWN NATO for their self-centered and self-rewarding reasons.

Every 5th grader knows what is going on here!

Hey! I am just here to tell it like it is!

NEXT RUSSIAN/TRUMP PROPAGANDA THREAD PLEASE!

 

[moon]

Godwin's law award winner !

No we dont need to "beef up NATO" you sound like a neocon.
What's the chance Russia would move on ANY NATO state? less then zero.. zip. nada.

The US in particular has to "beef up"the western Pacific.
Eastern Europe is a needless drain on our military resources

FFSsake jamming up Russia even further is a recipe for another war if anything
Even Zelensky gets this

Cypress does not. There's some sort of fuzzy starry-stripy thing interfering with his vision.



Haw, haw....................................haw.

 

[anatta]

Cypress does not. There's some sort of fuzzy starry-stripy thing interfering with his vision.



Haw, haw....................................haw.

I take his posts as honest, but to be blind to NATOs role in "poking the bear"
by using Ukraine as a proxy war against Russia is just being blind to reality

 

[Nordberg]

It is not confusing when you consider NATO was designed to prevent Russian expansion. Russia has a long history of taking over its neighbors. It is a fear that Putin brought to fruition in the last 6 weeks. NATO was not poking anyone. They actually rejected Ukraine's entry. NATO will have more unity and more distrust of Russia in the future. Putin decided he wanted a war and NATO had nothing to do with it. Russia may be economically a pariah. I doubt they will be easily forgiven. Russia has proven itself to be weaker militarily than the world thought. The Russian bear is a cub.

 

[anatta]

It is not confusing when you consider NATO was designed to prevent Russian expansion. Russia has a long history of taking over its neighbors. It is a fear that Putin brought to fruition in the last 6 weeks. NATO was not poking anyone. They actually rejected Ukraine's entry. NATO will have more unity and more distrust of Russia in the future. Putin decided he wanted a war and NATO had nothing to do with it. Russia may be economically a pariah. I doubt they will be easily forgiven. Russia has proven itself to be weaker militarily than the world thought. The Russian bear is a cub.

Russia is up against NATO quality weapons in Uk. the aren't militarily weak (and dont be a foolthinking they are)
but advanced weapons like JAVELIN are why Uk is in this war- and not over run.

If you dont understand this:

Western powers have continually, almost unwittingly, stoked a conflict with Russia they do not want to fight. And now, thanks to Putin’s barbaric attempt to erase Ukraine’s nationhood, they find themselves engaged in a war they don’t want to wage.

None of this has been conscious or part of a deliberate strategy.
No, this incoherence is the product of NATO’s reckless, self-contradictory post-Cold War development – an unwittingly offensive expansion of a supposedly defensive military alliance.

then no point in me discussing it with you

 

[archives]

Russia is up against NATO quality weapons in Uk. the aren't militarily weak (and dont be a foolthinking they are)
but advanced weapons like JAVELIN are why Uk is in this war- and not over run.

If you dont understand this:
then no point in me discussing it with you

To imply that NATO inspired this war is inane, NATO had nothing to do with Putin invading Georgia nor Crimea, those, and this, is all on Putin

 

[Nordberg]

Russia is up against NATO quality weapons in Uk. the aren't militarily weak (and dont be a foolthinking they are)
but advanced weapons like JAVELIN are why Uk is in this war- and not over run.

If you dont understand this:
then no point in me discussing it with you

And how did they happen to run into weapons supplied by NATO people? They started a fucking war. They blitzkrieged a neighbor who was no threat to them. They are destroying ancient towns and cities. they are killing men, women, children, dogs, cats and anything that gets in their way.
You should not talk to me. You have nothing to offer in refutation. This is Putin's war of choice. The west did not start this crap. If you think arming themselves against potential aggression from Russia was not justified, then explain what Russia did. They proved they are aggressors as they always have. They proved that Ukraine should have purchased more advanced weaponry to protect themselves from Russian warring ways.
Who can help the people and particularly the children from the mental damage that Putin has inflicted? Will Russia pay for the healthcare?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Russia is up against NATO quality weapons in Uk. the aren't militarily weak (and dont be a foolthinking they are)
but advanced weapons like JAVELIN are why Uk is in this war- and not over run.

If you dont understand this:
then no point in me discussing it with you

While the West appreciates your recognition of the clear superiority of Western weapons over Russian as the Ukrainians continue to prove the inferiority of the Russian Army.

Do you think the two Mi-24 Hinds which blew up a major Russian oil facility in Belgorod, Russia were Ukrainian or Russian?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1509765821454856237

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The Mi-24 Hind airstrike:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1509763703901761556

 

[cancel2 2022]

I take his posts as honest, but to be blind to NATOs role in "poking the bear"
by using Ukraine as a proxy war against Russia is just being blind to reality

Didn't I tell you many times that the likes of Germany shouldn't be depending on a potential enemy like Russia for its energy supplies. Putin would never have had the resources to build its military in the first place otherwise.

 

[anatta]

Didn't I tell you many times that the likes of Germany shouldn't be depending on a potential enemy like Russia for its energy supplies. Putin would never have had the resources to build its military in the first place otherwise.

I completely disagree - yes you've said it before

The way of isolating Russia,NATO expansion against Russia. weaponizing Uk with modern NATO weapons
and overthrowing The Uk president in 2014 has led to war.

"war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy" -and the west ( mostly US) - never even tried diplomacy
~~
as to Germany the best way to achieve peace -as we see in the Abraham Accords is thru trade

 

[anatta]

To imply that NATO inspired this war is inane, NATO had nothing to do with Putin invading Georgia nor Crimea, those, and this, is all on Putin

see if you can separate the war from the predicate for the war.

NATO (specifically the USA) had everything to do with Crimea - the Euromaidan which we fomented
put Sevastopol at risk as well as military instalations on the peninsula

 

[Nordberg]

see if you can separate the war from the predicate for the war.

NATO (specifically the USA) had everything to do with Crimea - the Euromaidan which we fomented
put Sevastopol at risk as well as military instalations on the peninsula

Put at risk? That is why Russia attacked Ukraine. That makes sense to you? Protecting yourself from war, is not committing war. What Putin did was and is war. Almost the entire planet is at risk from war nowadays.