Longer-lasting lithium-ion

[Dutch Uncle]

Incremental improvements in battery technology will not solve the fundamental limitations of batteries.

What is your recommendation?

If none, then all incremental improvements are welcome. Our past 10,000 years of history have been incremental improvements in areas like domestication of livestock, agriculture and metallurgy.

I'd hope to have a Jetpack and a Mr. Fusion by 2022, c'est la vie.

 

[Matt Dillon]

My role is not being subservient to you or any other TRUMPTARDED self-important idiot!

Is Wang CHUNG Chinese to you MOTHER-FUCKER- because everyone I know, knows Wang Chung to be a rock group that was from the UK.

I never mentioned China idiot- YOU DID!!

What Rachel Maddow does is not OPed!

Opeds actually are Opinionated responses to something written on the Editorial sections of Newspapers.

I was just using the term for some opinionated Magazine article- SUE ME OR EAT A DICK- if you don't like it!

Just keep doin' what you're doin'!

This is NOT an OpEd, Marxist useful idiot:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/materials/lithium-ion-batteries-coating-lifespan/

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Just keep doin' what you're doin'!

This is NOT an OpEd, Marxist useful idiot:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/materials/lithium-ion-batteries-coating-lifespan/

You make a good point and THEN BLOW IT WITH EVEN MORE STUPIDITY!

Dude you are an idiot- and not even a useful one! LOL!

 

[Matt Dillon]

You make a good point and THEN BLOW IT WITH EVEN MORE STUPIDITY!

Dude you are an idiot- and not even a useful one! LOL!

"Read science facts, not fiction..." Not so Opiniony and Editorially. Hmm..

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

"Read science facts, not fiction..." Not so Opiniony and Editorially. Hmm..

You, one of the best examples of Trumptardation here, are going to preach to us about Science?

 

[Matt Dillon]

You, one of the best examples of Trumptardation here, are going to preach to us about Science?

I know what is and what isn't, unlike you.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You make a good point and THEN BLOW IT WITH EVEN MORE STUPIDITY!

Dude you are an idiot- and not even a useful one! LOL!

Matt has occasional flashes of sanity. IMO, best to take what you can get.

 

[Into the Night]

“Our process will increase the lifespan of batteries in many things, from smart phones and laptops to power tools and electric vehicles,” says senior author and UQ researcher Professor Lianzhou Wang.

The team’s discovery revolves around the cathode of the battery: the positive side, which attracts negatively charged electrons as they move through a circuit.

At the moment, for commercial lithium-ion batteries to work they need the costly and hazardous metal cobalt in their cathodes – otherwise the cathodes corrode too easily. Cathodes without cobalt can make higher-voltage and thus more energy dense batteries, but the corrosion problem means their lifespan and function is limited.

Researchers are keen to find a coating that can protect the metals in the cathode without disrupting the battery’s performance.

Wang and colleagues discovered that an extremely thin epitaxial layer could protect a cathode made from lithium, nickel, and manganese. Epitaxy is a type of crystal growth in which the crystal’s atoms are aligned with the atoms in the substrate (the thing they’re growing on).

In this case, the researchers found that a specific material (made from lanthanum, nickel, manganese and oxygen) grown epitaxially on cathode particles could stop the cathode from dissolving.
This new approach features a minimal protective coating at a scalable process, paving the way for the deployment of these abundant high-voltage materials for next generation, high-energy batteries,” says Wang.

Wang says that other than being better performing and cobalt free, the battery operates very similarly to conventional lithium-ion batteries.

“The battery can be operated at higher voltage – about 4.5V, versus 3.7V for a normal lithium-ion battery – which means higher energy density can be delivered,” he points out.

The researchers are now planning to commercialise the technology.
https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/materials/lithium-ion-batteries-coating-lifespan/

Voltage is not energy. Energy is measured in joules. Energy over time is measured in watts.
The voltage of a battery cell is determined by the work function between the different conductors.
The maximum current available from a battery is determined by the internal resistance of the battery and the battery's ability to dissipate the heat.

Shorting a AA dry cell, for example, is safe (although it destroys the cell) because the internal resistance of that battery cannot generate enough power (watts) to burn you.
Shorting a lithium battery (even one as small as an AA cell, similar to many used in cars) is dangerous because the internal resistance of the battery is so low and the ability to dissipate the power (in watts) is limited. The result is a fire. Li-ion batteries burn like a firework, putting out a fairly bright flame similar to burning magnesium. By itself it's a class A fire. Water can put it out. If in a pack, however, it's a class C fire. Water is a BAD idea since you will only short the other cells, spreading the fire. Use CO2 or a C rated chemical extinguisher. Unfortunately, battery packs in EV's are rather large, and a typical CO2 or chemical extinguisher is too small to deal with it, even if one is available.

Assuming this new battery is truly free of cobalt, the work function could easily be changed, resulting in higher voltage. The internal resistance might be another story. At the least the dependency on cobalt is reduced. It is instead replaced by a slow manufacturing process (you have to grow the crystals, and that under carefully controlled conditions), and increases dependency on nickel and manganese.

Manganese primarily comes from South Africa...not exactly a friendly nation.
Nickle comes primarily from Indonesia, currently under threat from China, and Australia, currently an oligarchy and moving toward a dictatorship under Scott Morrison.

Both of these materials are very limited in availability. Not quite as bad as cobalt, but close to it.

The cathode of any rechargeable battery is positive only during discharge. It is negative during charge. This one would be no exception. In some circuits, such as the lead acid cell typically found in cars, the cathode will remain positive even during charge because the battery is being used as a ballast, charging and discharging at the same time (with a net charge until full).

The trouble with magazine articles like this is that they are written by writers that themselves don't understand chemistry...in this particular case...electrochemistry. They tend to take the marketing hype and call it 'science'. That's really all they have to go on, since they aren't chemists, and have never worked in electrochemistry.

An interesting battery technology, but it faces some serious problems with supply still and actual performance in practical circuits and charging systems remains to be seen. It's cost of production remains to be seen as well.

 

[Into the Night]

Didn't Into the Night tell us this is impossible? How dare science violate his version of the second law of thermodynamics?

No. I never did.

None of this violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Entropy is still increasing as you use the battery. You still have to charge it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What is your recommendation?

If none, then all incremental improvements are welcome. Our past 10,000 years of history have been incremental improvements in areas like domestication of livestock, agriculture and metallurgy.

I'd hope to have a Jetpack and a Mr. Fusion by 2022, c'est la vie.

Moving to a viable fuel cell based most probably on anhydrous ammonia. This is a stable fuel at room temperatures and is about as dangerous as gasoline only in different ways. It can be easily incorporated into our existing infrastructure rather than having to create an entirely new one like battery cars require.
The fuel is also portable meaning you can take extra with you. It is also storable for long periods without loss of functionality.

Cars using fuel cells would eliminate the need for massive battery packs.

The Navy made me study battery technology enough to know if there's an alternative, you should use it. Batteries are not a panacea nor are they practical for what the Greentards are trying to do with them.

Note: Batteries are limited in voltage per cell to the difference in electrical potential between the atoms that make up the cathode and anode. At most you might get 4 or so volts out of a cell, most will only produce 2 to 3. You can never beat that without changing the periodic table and the elements that make it up.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Moving to a viable fuel cell based most probably on anhydrous ammonia. This is a stable fuel at room temperatures and is about as dangerous as gasoline only in different ways. It can be easily incorporated into our existing infrastructure rather than having to create an entirely new one like battery cars require.
The fuel is also portable meaning you can take extra with you. It is also storable for long periods without loss of functionality.

Cars using fuel cells would eliminate the need for massive battery packs.

The Navy made me study battery technology enough to know if there's an alternative, you should use it. Batteries are not a panacea nor are they practical for what the Greentards are trying to do with them.

Note: Batteries are limited in voltage per cell to the difference in electrical potential between the atoms that make up the cathode and anode. At most you might get 4 or so volts out of a cell, most will only produce 2 to 3. You can never beat that without changing the periodic table and the elements that make it up.

Why do you think batteries are used in space instead of fuel cells?

 

[Into the Night]

Incremental improvements in battery technology will not solve the fundamental limitations of batteries.

True. The rechargeable battery can best be thought of as a tank. You have to 'fill it' by charging it. That energy is then available for local use (such as running drive motors on a car).

I'm not convinced this battery technology is necessarily a bigger 'tank'. It may offer higher voltage per cell, but that is not energy. That is like pressure in a pipe. Current is like flow in a pipe. Only the two together can do something useful (power).
Can this battery produce the same current at the higher voltage? If so, it is a bigger tank. A lot of left out of this article. I don't necessarily blame the author, but he's not a chemist and he's not an electronics engineer or electrician. He has to go by the marketing hype, so to speak, of the folks developing this battery. This poor author doesn't know the difference between voltage, current, power, and energy.

In the end, you are quite right. The fundamental problem is that the battery is only a 'tank' for electrons. Ya still gotta charge it.

 

[Into the Night]

as far as I can telll it's only eliminating the need for cobalt in the cathode -which does allow for higher voltage (already possible) but without the cathode decaying
It' not increasing efficiency, but it's reducing costs - perhaps more practical

It doesn't really reduce costs. It may wind up being more expensive.

Nickle and manganese are both very limited resources, coming from nations that are not very friendly to the States. There is still the problem with obtaining sufficient lithium as well. Further, this technology requires growing crystals under carefully controlled conditions...not exactly friendly to mass manufacturing in bulk.

It is not even known if these batteries can store the same or more energy per cell. A lot is left unsaid in the article. It is not even known if it's possible. It may be just more empty hype coming out of China.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Why do you think batteries are used in space instead of fuel cells?

In space the most common one on a satellite is nuclear.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/nuclear-battery

Those run for years reliably, that's why they're used. Radiation isn't a problem in space on something with no people around.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

In space the most common one on a satellite is nuclear.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/nuclear-battery

Those run for years reliably, that's why they're used. Radiation isn't a problem in space on something with no people around.

That doesn't help with manned space stations and vehicles.

 

[Into the Night]

This will help. It's a good percentage increase in longevity and deliverable power.

Maybe, maybe not. A lot is left unsaid.

 

[Into the Night]

Double is incremental? In the real world, it is a huge leap and you can be certain there will be many more. Honesty is an unknown concept to you.

Double of what?

 

[Into the Night]

There needs to be more rare element mining in the Americas.

We have the resources. The DEMOCRATS keep shutting this kind of thing down.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

True. The rechargeable battery can best be thought of as a tank. You have to 'fill it' by charging it. That energy is then available for local use (such as running drive motors on a car).

I'm not convinced this battery technology is necessarily a bigger 'tank'. It may offer higher voltage per cell, but that is not energy. That is like pressure in a pipe. Current is like flow in a pipe. Only the two together can do something useful (power).
Can this battery produce the same current at the higher voltage? If so, it is a bigger tank. A lot of left out of this article. I don't necessarily blame the author, but he's not a chemist and he's not an electronics engineer or electrician. He has to go by the marketing hype, so to speak, of the folks developing this battery. This poor author doesn't know the difference between voltage, current, power, and energy.

In the end, you are quite right. The fundamental problem is that the battery is only a 'tank' for electrons. Ya still gotta charge it.

A single battery cell's energy output is determined by its size. Bigger has more storage capacity. It's that simple. The amount of charge in determines the amount of power you can pull out of it and is limited by the size of the cell. More cells = more available power or more available voltage. Connection in series (more voltage) or parallel (more power) determines this.

The problem with the low voltage of batteries is that if you don't raise this then all the wiring and components in the system you have get big FAST. That adds weight and cost to them.

 

[Into the Night]

Absolutely wrong. And the real message befuddled you. The strides in batteries and alternative energy are coming quickly. The country that embraces the future in energy will lead the revolution and make the money and decisions. It would be China if we followed your foot-dragging ways.

Ya still gotta charge 'em, moron.