Washington State Town Hall's & Stuff

C

Canceled2

Banned
For my fellow Washatonians:


August 14 (Friday) Noon We will gather in front of the offices of our congressional delegation for one hour – lunchtime – to let our elected officials know exactly what we think about their monstrous health care plans.

Aug 14 - The Olympia Tea Party will be concentrating at the offices of Murray and Cantwell on the 14th and 28th in Tacoma. Details soon...

August 20 (Thursday) 6:30 PM Cap & Trade Forum Presented by "Be Informed WA-WA" 6:30 PM Registration, 7:00 forum starts. Suggested donation $5.00. Location is at a Church Facility at 5000 - 67th Ave W, Tacoma WA 98467 RSVP beinformedwa.wa@gmail.com (253) 567-7352


August 22 (Saturday) Noon American Liberty Alliance is organizing a national “Recess Rally” on Saturday, August 22 at noon local time in front of congressional offices.

August 25 (Tuesday) Rep Adam Smith Town Hall Meeting 7:00 - 8:30 PM at Milgard Family Hope Center Lakewood, WA 98499

Aug 25 - The Olympia Tea Party will be attending Rep. Smith's Town Hall Meeting. MILGARD FAMILY HOPE CENTER IN LAKEWOOD from 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Space is limited so RSVP by calling 253-593-6600 or (888) SMITH09.

Directions: From I-5 >> Exit 127 and travel West toward Lakewood >> Left (South) on South Tacoma Way >> Right (West) on 108th Street W >> Right (North) on Kline St SW. *** It is the big building on your left at the end of the big grass playfield.***

August 28 (Friday) Noon We will gather in front of the offices of our congressional delegation for one hour – lunchtime – to let our elected officials know exactly what we think about their monstrous health care plans.

Aug 28 - The Olympia Tea Party will be concentrating at the offices of Murray and Cantwell on the 14th and 28th in Tacoma. Details soon...

September 12 (Saturday)

Sept 12 - Olympia Tea Party event to be announced... Save this date on your calendar

September 17 (Thursday) Health Care Forum hosted by "Be Informed WA-WA" details to be announced







Excellent Resource for Good Health Care information: http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/

Cat is out of the bag! Single Payer is the Goal: http://www.verumserum.com/?p=6985

Who is behind radical Health Care: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/

50 Links for information: http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2009/03/the_50_most_popular_websites_o.php

Today: Sign this online petition to save health care: http://freeourhealthcarenow.com/
 
Seriously though, good luck getting anyone to take you seriously.

I might just be there with my video camera interviewing people to let them embarrass themselves on youtube.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Yeah, good one.

Clearly you don't know what astroturf is. And clearly, you listen to Rush Limbaugh.
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Yeah, a "grass roots" movement is called "astroturf" if it is supposedly part of the political machine working from the background attempting to make it appear "grass roots"....

It would be like Soros busing in people to Florida to protest in 2000, or like now where the WH begins an attack position and seeks others to help him get people out to counter what seems to be growing dissent against his plan. Top down "protests" are all astroturf... even if they come from the left.
 
Damocles said:
Yeah, a "grass roots" movement is called "astroturf" if it is supposedly part of the political machine working from the background attempting to make it appear "grass roots"....

It would be like Soros busing in people to Florida to protest in 2000, or like now where the WH begins an attack position and seeks others to help him get people out to counter what seems to be growing dissent against his plan. Top down "protests" are all astroturf... even if they come from the left.
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In 2000, it was the congressional Republicans bussing in their staff to protest. That's what shut down the recount. Did you conveniently forget that detail? THAT is the very definition of astroturf.

You familiar with the Americans for Progress PAC? They're presently bussing people around the country to these "protests." So it's 100 percent absolutely false of you to say the only astroturf is coming from the White House, who is emailing their constituents and encouraging them to show up to this stuff.

Not to mention, you should see the memos and hold them up next to each other. One is telling people to shout down the speakers, don't let them get a word in, disrupt disrupt disrupt. The other is suggesting being polite and asking informed questions, etc. There's no comparison here.
 
ib1yysguy said:
In 2000, it was the congressional Republicans bussing in their staff to protest. That's what shut down the recount. Did you conveniently forget that detail? THAT is the very definition of astroturf.

You familiar with the Americans for Progress PAC? They're presently bussing people around the country to these "protests." So it's 100 percent absolutely false of you to say the only astroturf is coming from the White House, who is emailing their constituents and encouraging them to show up to this stuff.

Not to mention, you should see the memos and hold them up next to each other. One is telling people to shout down the speakers, don't let them get a word in, disrupt disrupt disrupt. The other is suggesting being polite and asking informed questions, etc. There's no comparison here.
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Both sides bused in people, did you conveniently forget that? It's astroturf from either side my friend. I remember reading the memos and books, challenge everything, etc...

I cited examples, so far you try to excuse astroturf by saying, "Bush did it too!"... Great standard there, so long as Bush did it, it's okay for Obama.

Please. And the Unions are specifically calling for thugs to shut them down. We've already seen some of their handiwork. BTW - do you know where they got those ideas? From memos they had seen from some others who protested against them. People are seeking effective means to communicate with their representatives when they are from an opposing party.. and they are finding it. They stole some of the worst pages from a handbook. I wish they would protest outside and go inside to ask questions like the lady I saw on MSNBC at Boxer's town hall meeting. No shouting, not disruption, just questions that Boxer couldn't answer.
 
Damocles said:
Both sides bused in people, did you conveniently forget that? It's astroturf from either side my friend. I remember reading the memos and books, challenge everything, etc...

I cited examples, so far you try to excuse astroturf by saying, "Bush did it too!"... Great standard there, so long as Bush did it, it's okay for Obama.

Please. And the Unions are specifically calling for thugs to shut them down. We've already seen some of their handiwork. BTW - do you know where they got those ideas? From memos they had seen from some others who protested...
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I've never heard of Soros bussing anyone down to Florida. I'd be surprised if that was the case.

I never mentioned Bush.

The only videos I've seen of violence were of people claiming it was union people tearing shit up, when clearly it was the loud obnoxious conservative idiots there pushing people around. The guy with the torn shirt was surrounded by people who were clearly conservatives.
 
ib1yysguy said:
I've never heard of Soros bussing anyone down to Florida. I'd be surprised if that was the case.

I never mentioned Bush.

The only videos I've seen of violence were of people claiming it was union people tearing shit up, when clearly it was the loud obnoxious conservative idiots there pushing people around. The guy with the torn shirt was surrounded by people who were clearly conservatives.
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No, you mentioned the people who were working for Bush's side of the argument and I used the names in that context.

The guy with the torn shirt was surrounded by them after they separated him from the dude that attacked him. It was on the video. And the black dude beat down by like 5 union members, yeah that was impossible to see. There's great video and he and his lawyer are making the circuit now, it's real pleasant.
 
Damocles said:
No, you mentioned the people who were working for Bush's side of the argument and I used the names in that context.

The guy with the torn shirt was surrounded by them after they separated him from the dude that attacked him. It was on the video. And the black dude beat down by like 5 union members, yeah that was impossible to see. There's great video and he and his lawyer are making the circuit now, it's real pleasant.
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I've seen the video of the guy with the torn shirt and all I saw was him being pushed around near the door and surrounded by a bunch of screaming conservatives. There's no evidence union members had anything to do with it.

I haven't seen the video of the black guy. My guess is it's just as much bullshit as the other one in terms of being proof of unions busting things up.

I assume you're backing away from your claim that the only astroturfing was coming from the white house. If the white house started bussing their staff around to protest stuff, I'd agree that they were astroturfing. What you see right now, however, is good old fashioned political organizing. When the political organizing is orchestrated by corporate interests, it's astroturf. When they bus staff around disguised as regular folks, that's astroturfing. Emailing your constituents is organizing.

Again, read up on Americans for Prosperity if you want to know who's responsible for astroturfing.

http://www.americansforprosperity.org/national-site

Guess who put together AFP? Guess who's behind it. You want to guess that it's good'ole folks from the sticks angry about getting another health insurance option because they love their insurance so much?
 
ib1yysguy said:
I've seen the video of the guy with the torn shirt and all I saw was him being pushed around near the door and surrounded by a bunch of screaming conservatives. There's no evidence union members had anything to do with it.

I haven't seen the video of the black guy. My guess is it's just as much bullshit as the other one in terms of being proof of unions busting things up.

I assume you're backing away from your claim that the only astroturfing was coming from the white house. If the white house started bussing their staff around to protest stuff, I'd agree that they were astroturfing. What you see right now, however, is good old fashioned political organizing. When the political organizing is orchestrated by corporate interests, it's astroturf. When they bus staff around disguised as regular folks, that's astroturfing. Emailing your constituents is organizing.

Again, read up on Americans for Prosperity if you want to know who's responsible for astroturfing.

http://www.americansforprosperity.org/national-site

Guess who put together AFP? Guess who's behind it. You want to guess that it's good'ole folks from the sticks angry about getting another health insurance option because they love their insurance so much?
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No, I'm not backing away from that. When they begin the call for the fight against "disinformation" they are most definitely turning the key on the bus that drives the astroturf wagons.
 
ib1yysguy said:
I haven't seen the video of the black guy. My guess is it's just as much bullshit as the other one in terms of being proof of unions busting things up.
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You are being an idiot! The guy has eye witnesses that support his claim to what happened. The cops arrested the union thugs that beat him to the ground!
 
Damocles said:
No, I'm not backing away from that. When they begin the call for the fight against "disinformation" they are most definitely turning the key on the bus that drives the astroturf wagons.
Click to expand...

Lets recap what you claimed. You claimed the only astroturfing was coming from the white house. That is to say there is no astroturfing coming from anyone else.

That is clearly false. I even gave you the name of an organization that is bussing people around.

pf-bus-pic-3.jpg


So that proves the assertion false.

Now we can argue about whether the White House emailing constituents is astroturf. It's not. It's political organizing. Astroturf is corporations and other interests disguising their highly funded organizing as though it's grass roots. You let me know when Obama puts together a bus like the one above with his staff disguised as regular folk like the Republicans did in Florida in 2000. Then you'll have shown us an example of White House astroturf.

Clearly, even if I were to grant you that the White House is astroturfing, your statement is still false since they're clearly not the "only ones" doing so.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Lets recap what you claimed. You claimed the only astroturfing was coming from the white house. That is to say there is no astroturfing coming from anyone else.

That is clearly false. I even gave you the name of an organization that is bussing people around.

So that proves the assertion false.

Now we can argue about whether the White House emailing constituents is astroturf. It's not. It's political organizing. Astroturf is corporations and other interests disguising their highly funded organizing as though it's grass roots. You let me know when Obama puts together a bus like the one above with his staff disguised as regular folk like the Republicans did in Florida in 2000. Then you'll have shown us an example of White House astroturf.

Clearly, even if I were to grant you that the White House is astroturfing, your statement is still false since they're clearly not the "only ones" doing so.
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Well, I'll restate. Obvious astroturfing is coming from both sides. I like the fact that the right has learned some effective means of protest from the lefties. I don't like the fact that they are doing the "shouting down" portion, I've always hated that. I would prefer they educate and send them in, like the lady at Boxer's town hall meeting armed with intelligent articulation.

But IMO, it is obvious that both sides are playing that game and trying to shut down one side by saying they are the only astroturfers is plain funny. I shouldn't use hyperbole, you are right.

Both sides are welcome to "astroturf" IMO. When I want to get to a debate that needs a protest I would like to travel with a group of like-minded people. But the pretense that the only "turfing" that is happening is from the right is fricking hilarious.
 
Damocles said:
Well, I'll restate. Obvious astroturfing is coming from both sides. I like the fact that the right has learned some effective means of protest from the lefties. I don't like the fact that they are doing the "shouting down" portion, I've always hated that. I would prefer they educate and send them in, like the lady at Boxer's town hall meeting armed with intelligent articulation.

But IMO, it is obvious that both sides are playing that game and trying to shut down one side by saying they are the only astroturfers is plain funny. I shouldn't use hyperbole, you are right.

Both sides are welcome to "astroturf" IMO. When I want to get to a debate that needs a protest I would like to travel with a group of like-minded people. But the pretense that the only "turfing" that is happening is from the right is fricking hilarious.
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If anyone is astroturfing on the left, it's the unions not the White House.

I'd also love to see some articulate debate from the right about health care. Most of what I've heard is disinformation from primarily the right. Politfact and Factcheck both confirm that the huge majority of disinformation is coming from the right on this issue. All you have to do is read this board to know who's talking about the real reform bills and who's complaining about euthanizing the elderly or taking away your ability to choose your doctor.
 
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