FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Like double-blinded tests? OH POOR PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES! CAN'T SELL DRUGS WITHOUT PROVING THEY WORK, WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!
Rationing and long lines
- Thread starter TuTu Monroe
- Start date
Like double-blinded tests? OH POOR PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES! CAN'T SELL DRUGS WITHOUT PROVING THEY WORK, WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Something tells me you don't either.
BTW, malpractice is about 2% of the costs of the current system.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Yeah, you pretty much just pulled that out of your ass and have nothing to prove it. It sounds pretty nice to the conservative mind. They just don't have any evidence for it. No matter! It's common sense! Just like the world is flat!
The fact is, the health market does not operate like a standard free market. adverse selection and moral hazard are so central to the enterprise that nobody expects free-market principles to be enough.
That's why we need the public option, to introduce the reforms the health insurance industry needs to the market. Currently, they are being kept out of the way by the health insurance cartel that is perfectly happy keeping its profits way up. Fact is, the thing never, ever operated like a free market in the first place, and it never well, because that is not reality. Accept it. You magic fairy dust does not work everywhere. This is where conservatives live - looneytown. When reality and theory conflict, ignore reality.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
A lot on your plate, I'll question one of your premises. My wife requires a particular drug for the next 5 years as part of her cancer treatment. The drug costs about $550 per 90 day supply(1 per day) here, there is no generic available. I deal with a company in Germany because of their strict pharma laws and buy a licensed generic version of the same drug for $143 per 100 day supply(prepaid freight). The licensee, coincidently, is a foreign subsidiary of the brand name maker here. Can anybody explain why the difference? This story and worse are told a million times a day in this country.
I don't think greed is a government induced problem. It wasn't the government that gave United Health's(the AARP insurance licensee) retiring CEO a $1.2 billion bonus. The profit motive can never be a part of an efficient healthcare system. Every level of healthcare you mentioned has a profit imposed at each level.
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
Reagan opened the door to fastrack drug approvals , just for a few critical ones at first, but it spread.
Many scandals in recent years about skimpy drug tests, falsified records, etc
apple0154
MEOW
For the sake of argument let's say everything you wrote is correct. High research costs. Frivolous malpractice suits. Too many crazy regulations.
When the government takes it over they pay the bill. Now they have a vested interest in examining all the costs and regulations. Now it is their job to think of ways to reform it because they are paying the bill and the taxpayers are electing them. Simply stated, all the politicians will get off their collective asses and figure it out! Now their job will be on the line and that's what is needed.
The politicians will be is a position where they had better figure it out or they will be out...of a job. Puts a whole new spin on it and that, in my opinion, is what Obama is doing.
He is saying, "We are having medical coverage for everyone. Figure it out." No different than a boss saying, "Here's the project. Work on it."
Just consider the changes that were made after 9/11. If the country can effect changes of that magnitude health care reform is a walk in the park. And it is a walk in the park because all the government has to do is make laws.
More "ayes" than "nays" and frivolous malpractice suits are curtailed. More "eyes" than "nays" and drugs come to market sooner or unnecessary regulations withdrawn. It's just that simple.
Dozens of countries have done it. It's not rocket science. It's as simple as dumping the problem in their lap. Just as has happened to each of us at one time or another by our boss and told to "Figure it out."
You can add India and China. Ask a Walmart pharmacist where your drugs come from.
Whomever
uscitizen alternate login
Wal Mart is not the only place you get Indian and Chinese made Pharmacuticals.
You just pay more for then at other places.
You do not always get what you pay for.
I get my drugs at Wally world.
They have the best price on Marinol and Oxycotin.
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Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Do you know how many people in America DIE from FDA approved drugs....drugs that went through the process you allude to?
Do you know how many incompetant doctors are STILL in practice despite numerous successful malpractice suits (meaning they screwed up and/or killed a patient?)
Oh, and the second to last paragraph......unless you have something besides, opinion, supposition and conjecture, its' meaningless.
Good Luck
New member
That is one of my central points: that despite the heavy - and costly - federal regulations in place, the same kinds of mistakes are being made. That tells me (and anyone who actually thinks for themselves rather than depending on mommy government to do it for them) that the regulations currently in place are pretty much useless.
We have regulations that delay the introduction of pharmaceuticals by as much as a decade - yet new drugs with bad side effects keep popping up and are later withdrawn. We have regulations (supposedly) keeping track of bad medical decisions, yet nothing happens from the data that federal regulations mandate medical facilities gather and report. We have regulations requiring minimum levels of malpractice insurance (Side note - nowhere did I mention frivolous lawsuits, did I?) creating an artificially inflated market for the insurance companies. Yet we have doctors practicing who should not be practicing because all the malpractice industry does is get injured people (and some not-so-injured people, but that is not my point) large (sometime overly large, but again is not my point) settlements while doing NOTHING to address the problem of malpractice itself (and THAT is my point).
In short, the problems lie in the fact that we have innumerable regulations and other factors keeping a bunch of D.C. fat asses employed on the public ticket, keeping ambulance chasing lawyers in their BMWs; all factors in creating vast expenses for the medical industry that are, by necessity, passed onto the consumer; while there is little to no demonstrable GOOD coming from these self same regulations and infrastructures to justify the added costs of medical treatment in our society.
I do not object to regulations on the pharmaceutical industry, medical equipment industry, etc. It keep out the snake oil salesmen. But when there are so many regulations and requirements that, in the end, do nothing but add to the development costs of a new medical technology, then the regulations, how they affect medical research, how they affect costs, and if they achieve their purpose all needs to be closely examined.
As for conjecture, I asked (did you see the question mark? do you know what a question mark signifies?) if it is possible that the degree and type of some regulations could possibly lead to more mistakes being made, rather than fewer. It is entirely possible that valid research methods are being compromised because a regulation is poorly written thus requiring use of a less valid procedure to meet some federal requirements.
It is far from meaningless to ask such things. Asking whether some regulations result in more harm is a valid question to ask. Asking questions about where problems stem from is the first step in actual reform. We ARE talking about reform, right? (Oh, I forget. "Health care reform" is supposed to mean how much MORE regulations and interference should the government add to the mess.)
Good Luck
New member
When you can point out a drug manufacturer's financial reports showing undue profit margins, then you can talk about greed. Meanwhile, try taking a look at how much it costs a drug company to develop a new medication and get it on the market past all the federal regulations in place. Also consider the amounts of research monies thrown at drugs that fail to make it. The successful few have to pay for the unsuccessful majority or the company (even if it were a public non-profit one) would fold.
Another factor to look at is the regulations on drug manufacturing in the U.S. They, too, add to the cost of a marketed pharmaceutical. It is a factor in why many drugs, once approved for use, end up being manufactured elsewhere.
And don't decry profit as a motivator. The U.S. still comes out with more medical innovations annually than the rest of the world combined. It was most likely U.S. companies that developed the majority of medications your wife is depending on, as well as the treatment regimen. (My best wishes for you both on that, BTW.) Think half of them would even exist if there were no profit motive for the drug company to find new cancer treatments? There is an incredible amount of federal and state monies being poured into university medical research. Yet most of the real breakthroughs come from the private sector - why is that? First, because there is more money in the private sector (a fact that should stay that way). Second, because the profit motive makes researchers take a much more practical approach to the whole concept of medical research (they want a marketable product) than public research (they want their names on an article in the next professional journal.)
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Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Good Luck, you may as well be talking to your wallpaper! NO, we are not talking about health care reform, no one on the left is interested in listening to a damn thing anyone has to say about "reform" of anything, except the government taking over insurance responsibilities from the private sector. Everything else is going to remain the same, frivolous lawsuits... not a damn thing will be reformed there... too many trial lawyers who are friends with Obama for that to ever happen... Deregulation? HAHAHAH!! RIGHT! When pigs fly maybe? Nope... no reforms there either. What we are getting is Socialized Health Care, rammed down our throats against our will, while Liberals have full reign of power. If you read apple's reply, he makes that vividly clear.... they know they better pass this now, they won't have a chance later.... You all need to remember this next time you vote, especially if you have previously talked yourself out of voting for the only party who has a chance to beat them. These people are absolutely insane, and if America doesn't wake up to it pretty fast, it will be too late. This is just the first step to full Socialization.
You do know that I am breaking the law by buying that drug overseas as a result of the infamous Medicare Part D law passed by the GOP Majority at 5am after a delay of the final vote count for hours. So much for "over-regulation" pleas by Republicans. In the same law they also forbad Medicare from negotiating for lower drug prices, yet now they rag on Medicare for inefficiencies. The above restrictions were placed there by lobbyists(Tauzin/Hastert/Delay) in order to preserve PROFIT to the industry and adding to the burden of higher costs to the American people. If a drug company nets 8-12 percent on Public Health, that is a cost the people must pay. If, as a result of those profits, huge executive bonuses are triggered, yet another cost is added. Finally, if those profits result in additional dividends to shareholders, still more cost is added to the Healthcare system.
I would bet a whole bunch of money that layers of profit far exceed the cost of tort actions against the industry, control of which which seems to be the only efficiency fostered by the Right.
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For consistency, you would then favor privatization of Police and Fire Departments? I'm sure Blackwater and Halliburton would love to step right in, without contracts or audits of course.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Shut the fuck up with your stupid irrelevant comparisons to emergency services. This is just a total insult to anyone of any intelligence. The Federal Government does not come put the fire out at your house, MORON! This is done by a Fire Department which you pay for in tax money in most areas of the country. The same is true with police, they are paid employees of the city, presided over by a Chief, who is appointed by the elected Mayor. They have absolutely nothing to do with a NATIONAL discussion on the FEDERAL takeover of medicine in America!
Since you are such a fucked in the head idiot to even attempt such a stupid comparison, I think I will use it to thwack your pinhead with.....
If our Health Care system is now going to be like Fire Departments, does that mean people who live out in the country will be able to have Volunteer Clinics, where Granny can come practice her medicine for chickens or whatever? Bubba can put the red light on his pickup truck and haul folks to the hospital? And will they be like small town police departments, where everyone is asleep or at the Waffle House?
In the big cities, would our hospitals and clinics be run as metro police departments? You get treated if you know the right people... full of graft and payoffs... cronyism, nepotism, and good ole boys? You know, my favorite comparison has always been the DMV... that is more like what we will have. But I must say, comparing Socialized Health Care to police and fire departments has been almost as fun!
Here's the thing... we can make all kinds of comparison between 'private sector' and 'government-run' but you can't give me one good example of anything the government runs better than private enterprise. The ONLY exception may be the military, but government has proven not to be efficient even at that!
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
What will the Canadians and the Brits do when the US health care system is as fucked up as theirs and they've got nowhere to go?
charver
You lookin' at my pint?
I don't know anyone who's gone to the US to be treated. It is very, very expensive, you know.
Why fly to the States when you can just go private here or go to Europe for reasonable rates?
Damn! I must have hit the nail right on the head. Tax money from cities or counties for services differs from national taxes for services?
We have no problems here with Police, Fire, or the DMV, sorry about yours, it must be an Alabama 'R' thing.
MY "one good example"? HEALTHCARE!
Of course, after 8 years of bush, the reason for your opinion is understandable, not much right happened during that time did it?
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