blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Once again .. you're wrong.
Voter fraud in Iran?
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
Once again .. you're wrong.
Adam Weinberg
Goldwater Republican
Even so, it is not only the United States and its citizens making criticism of this event. The Iranian public, independent observers, journalists, etc. from around the world are chiming in on this and standing in solidarity with Iranian people who feel they are being lied to by their government and their own votes.
Is there not at least some notable difference between a flawed system of elections prone to error and manipulation and a nationwide attempt at voter supression along with what may be essentially a coup disguised as a continuation of a current administration?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Venezuelan Elections Transparent and Exemplary, International Observers Report
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4219
What International Observers are Saying About Elections in Venezuela
Venezuela’s elections are among the most heavily scrutinized in the world. A national referendum on constitutional reforms held in December 2007 was observed by the NAACP and the National Lawyers Guild. Legislative elections in December 2005 were observed by delegations from the European Union and the Organization of American States (OAS). The 2004 recall referendum on the mandate of President Chávez was observed by a number of international bodies including the OAS and the Carter Center. Below are statements from these observers, in their own words, on how Venezuela’s elections are conducted.
http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/Electoral Observers.htm
The Carter Center: International Election Reports
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html
Venezuelan Elections
Venezuela’s elections are among the most observed anywhere in the world. The presidential election will be observed by the Organisation of American States and 130 EU observers and the Carter Centre. The Head of the EU delegation to Venezuela, Antonio García Velásquez, has said the agreement made with the Venezuelan electoral authorities ‘will allow us to work in complete liberty and with all requirements so that the job can be fulfilled in conformity with our stipulations.’ In addition, at each of the 33,000 polling stations throughout the country, the dozens of parties involved in the election will be entitled to an observer.
http://www.bolivariancentre.com/leftframe/elections.htm
You quite simply do not know what you're talking about.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Just wondering how much effort you contributed to the discovery of fraud in US elections? There were notable critics of US election fraud from around the world as well.
Criticism of Iranian elections from the US must seem more than a bit bizzarre to those who rememnber it was the US who overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran and installed the brutal Shah and his band of assasins, rapists, and murderers. In other words, this wouldn't be the first time the US government has worked to undermine an election we don't agree with .. nor would it be the first time we've formented opposition to an elected government.
The bottom line is American critcism of international elections doesn't carry much weight these days .. given how easily our election system is manipulated and the undeniable FACT that money buys elections in the US.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You can ignore the observations of international monitors if you choose.
No surprise there.
... and while you're at it ignore than money buys US elections and we operate PRIVATELY-OWNED elections.
Americans and their government does not count votes or decalre winners .. private corporations do.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Armed men are now shooting at the protesters.
Topspin
Verified User
just like you ignore reports of Chavez controlling the media
It looks like a case of voter fraud in the election held in Iran! But we can relate to that too, the United States had two cases of voter fraud, in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections! And we paid a heavy price for it too, and will be for sometime to come!
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/iranian-reformer-claims-widespread-vo
did you notice how quickly victory was claimed...was there even enough time to count the ballots or show results per precinct or voting place
And reports of physical violence on students supporting his opposition. It's all good they're magically perfect because they are more socialist than we are.
They were claiming it before all the polls had even closed.
Some relevant information.
Record turnouts are almost never good for the incumbent, that is what they had. So many people turned out to vote that often they ran out of ballots and had to hold lines open for as many as 14 hours after they were supposed to close to get all the voters in.
Record turnout from the students who boycotted last election. The younger people in Iran have a massive lean towards the opposition candidate's position and comprise 2/3 of the population.
like the 2000 election where bush was appointed pres
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
So because I don't have any "moral authority" because of our collective guilt I can't criticize these results? Absrud.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
I have no doubt that Hugo Chavez is immensely popular, well liked by the public, and likely to win any election. I am much more suspicious of the Iranian election results.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
This is not "American" criticism, BAC. This is Watermark's criticism. There is no such thing as collective guilt, I hold no responsibility for that which I would've stopped if I had any power over it whatsoever. You cannot use this logical fallacy on me. I can criticize this election all I want. It's true, it'll do as much good as the criticism I would've spouted in the 50's if I were alive and had heard about the Iranian coup. But I am free to do it, and I have moral authority to do so.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Exactly that and the plethora of undeniable vote fraud and suppression that litters American history.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I have no problem with you thinking you have the moral authority to criticize elections in Iran .. but no such "moral authority" exists. You have the right to criticize, but you have no moral authority .. in fact you have no authority at all.
I'm not suggesting that you should not criticize what and whomever you think deserves criticism, but criticism of another countries failings while your own country is steeped in the same failings seems more than a bit silly to me.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Unlike many Americans .. which probably includes you .. I did not ignore the election failings IN MY OWN COUNTRY and save misplaced fake anger for elections held in another country that I've never visited or know anything about their elections.
I've already posted the observations of international monitors .. who don't just come from socialist countries and which includes a former American president that confirm Venezuelan election fair, open, transparent, and honest.
I can also post observations of the opposition that declare the exact same thing .. but I'm real sure that none of this impresses you as the truth is that you simply don't like Venezuela or the will of the Venezuelan people.
I got that.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I agree with you .. but that is something the Iranian people will have to deal with .. in an environment where whomever is the president is still subservient to the "Supreme Leader."