Guilty of murder. All three charges!

[Old Trapper]

Just spit balling here but there's two reasons I think we won't see major changes. The first is when crime picks up people become afraid and we pass tougher crime legislation. The other is the tribalism and partisanship, and even you referenced the right and left here as if each 'side' can only see things one way.

I would throw out how many people have heard of Tony Timpa? He was killed by the police in Dallas in 2016 the same as George Floyd. Yet no national media attention, no protests etc. The reason why? He was white. Just my opinion but if we really want reform there needs to be more buy in from people across the political spectrum and with the way its done now we don't get that.

One reason, and that is the police union. They write the rules, and then force the city to accept them. One outfit does so for 80% of the police forces.

"Despite these challenges, the company has marketed its policies as a way to decrease cities’ liability in police misconduct lawsuits. In its communications with potential clients, Lexipol has claimed that agencies that use its policies are sued less frequently and pay out smaller settlements, according to a Texas Law Review analysis of public records. The company’s critics argue that it accomplishes this with vague or permissive rules that meet bare-minimum legal requirements rather than holding officers to a higher standard. “They want to make it impossible, or nearly impossible, for anybody to point to the policy and say it was violated,” says Carl Takei, an ACLU senior staff attorney specializing in police practices. “Defining ‘imminent’ in a way that removes all of the immi*nence? That’s a classic Lexipol policy.” Samuel Sinyangwe, a racial justice activist and data analyst who has looked at hundreds of police departments’ policies, concludes that Lexipol’s use-of-force guidelines usually lack requirements that have been shown to reduce police violence. Lexipol did not respond to a request for comment.

Lexipol was started in 2003; two of its three founders were former cops who became lawyers. One, Bruce Praet, spent a decade as an officer in Orange County, where he twice beat misconduct lawsuits, according to a 1992 Los Angeles Times profile. Inspired by his defense lawyer, Michael Stone—who later represented one of Rodney King’s assailants—Praet went on to become a police union lawyer before starting a firm that specialized in defending cops in cases involving shootings, pursuits, and dog bites. In 1998, he co-wrote the precursor to Lexipol’s first law enforcement manual. From the last three years alone, he has defended police in nearly three dozen federal lawsuits."


https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/08/lexipol-police-policy-company/

 

[cawacko]

The hyper-partisan nature of every issue is a great tragedy. We're really missing so much of what we all agree on - not just w/ this issue, but with things like the environment and education.

Personally, I blame the CNN's & Fox's. They perpetuate the illusion of division at this level. We're divided, and we disagree, but that's always been the case. We used to be able to find a place in the middle & create positive change. It's not in me to give up on that idea.

The cable news channels clearly exacerbate a number of issues in this country. Race is obviously is a very difficult subject and almost impossible to have an "honest" debate/discussion, whatever that may even be. And policing and race are so tied together. This isn't to suggest we shouldn't work to improve how we police our communities. We 100% should. (We should be working to improve all areas of government.) But part of working to improve policing includes having uncomfortable and difficult conversations and this is a very difficult environment to do so in.

 

[goat]

There is more consensus than most think about the need for police reform in general.

I haven't loved a lot of the national dialogue on the entire topic, but one thing that is starting to be talked about more is the concept of policing in general. What do they need to protect people from, and what level of force is needed? Can we start mailing out fines instead of creating confrontation over things like expired registrations and traffic offenses?

The entire way we approach law enforcement needs to be changed, and the relationship of police to the communities they serve. This, to me, is a very healthy conversation - and one where there is much agreement between the left & right.

Can politicians take that consensus and arrive at common sense solutions? There is a mandate to do so. We can only hope.

Sounds good in theory yet somehow unattainable in practice.

 

[cawacko]

One reason, and that is the police union. They write the rules, and then force the city to accept them. One outfit does so for 80% of the police forces.

Like the teachers unions, the police union is a big reason attempted reforms have been blocked. Because what's best for police officers isn't necessarily best for the citizens or the country.

 

[BidenPresident]

Like the teachers unions, the police union is a big reason attempted reforms have been blocked. Because what's best for police officers isn't necessarily best for the citizens or the country.

...and bashing teachers

 

[BartenderElite]

The cable news channels clearly exacerbate a number of issues in this country. Race is obviously is a very difficult subject and almost impossible to have an "honest" debate/discussion, whatever that may even be. And policing and race are so tied together. This isn't to suggest we shouldn't work to improve how we police our communities. We 100% should. (We should be working to improve all areas of government.) But part of working to improve policing includes having uncomfortable and difficult conversations and this is a very difficult environment to do so in.

It does cause me some dismay how quickly honest dialogue gets shut down in this climate. You have to toe a very thin line, or you're one of "them."

I.e. I personally think it's wrong to characterize this as a racist incident. It MAY have been, but we have absolutely zilch to ascribe that characterization to it. Police brutality? All day, every day. But it is now accepted as another example of racism in law enforcement, and you can't really argue that.

 

[BidenPresident]

It does cause me some dismay how quickly honest dialogue gets shut down in this climate. You have to toe a very thin line, or you're one of "them."

I.e. I personally think it's wrong to characterize this as a racist incident. It MAY have been, but we have absolutely zilch to ascribe that characterization to it. Police brutality? All day, every day. But it is now accepted as another example of racism in law enforcement, and you can't really argue that.

Statistics show that blacks are treated worse than whites. That seems irrefutable.

 

[TTQ64]

What it means is that it’s time for Biden to get off the fence and get behind SERIOUS police reform.

That’s what it better mean.

standing ovation!

Now Ill top 4/20 off with a shot of 1942 Don Julio an a hit fruty pebbles.............puff puff ...............

 

[BartenderElite]

Statistics show that blacks are treated worse than whites. That seems irrefutable.

No doubt. I don't question that. I know too many friends who've been pulled over for "driving while black," and stop & frisk was clear bias. Among many other examples.

I just think it's wrong to characterize this incident as clearly racist. There is nothing to support that. Sometimes, there are just bad cops.

 

[TTQ64]

Hopefully this sent a warning to cops and this was a tipping point that cops don't get off murdering people anymore

nah. lots of kops stormed the capitol on 1/6 and nothing will happen to them........they are not worried.

 

[BidenPresident]

No doubt. I don't question that. I know too many friends who've been pulled over for "driving while black," and stop & frisk was clear bias. Among many other examples.

I just think it's wrong to characterize this incident as clearly racist. There is nothing to support that. Sometimes, there are just bad cops.

Agree. I think abuse by cops has to stop. I am white and was harassed by cops for jaywalking. Like you said, I know black guys are more abused.

 

[cawacko]

It does cause me some dismay how quickly honest dialogue gets shut down in this climate. You have to toe a very thin line, or you're one of "them."

I.e. I personally think it's wrong to characterize this as a racist incident. It MAY have been, but we have absolutely zilch to ascribe that characterization to it. Police brutality? All day, every day. But it is now accepted as another example of racism in law enforcement, and you can't really argue that.

I happen to agree with your second paragraph. It's why I brought up the Tony Timpa incident. Same techniques used by the police force to kill a man but because it was a white officer and white victim we didn't hear anything about it. The media chooses to basically only focus on issue where there is (usually) a white cop and black victim. And by focusing only on race, and trying to frame everything as racist, we lose sight of the totality of police brutality. Additionally people get a wrong impression that only black people are victims of police violence.

 

[Concart]

standing ovation!

Now Ill top 4/20 off with a shot of 1942 Don Julio an a hit fruty pebbles.............puff puff ...............

I got some awesome discounts at the store on Sunday. Dutch Hawaiian crumble. It's a national holiday, right?

 

[BidenPresident]

I happen to agree with your second paragraph. It's why I brought up the Tony Timpa incident. Same techniques used by the police force to kill a man but because it was a white officer and white victim we didn't hear anything about it. The media chooses to basically only focus on issue where there is (usually) a white cop and black victim. And by focusing only on race, and trying to frame everything as racist, we lose sight of the totality of police brutality. Additionally people get a wrong impression that only black people are victims of police violence.

Whites get harassed by cops, blacks get much worse treatment.

 

[TTQ64]

This is the end of the beginning. Still the beginning. We still have a long way to go. But there should have not been any question about what this was, and yet here we are. And now we're going to hear how horrible this decision was.

exactly.

watch how they will start reporting all this black crime like they did to chicago when they found out President Obama was from there.

 

[cawacko]

No doubt. I don't question that. I know too many friends who've been pulled over for "driving while black," and stop & frisk was clear bias. Among many other examples.

I just think it's wrong to characterize this incident as clearly racist. There is nothing to support that. Sometimes, there are just bad cops.

There's different data here. Black people do get harrassed/abused by the cops more often. Like you, I've seen black friends get pulled over for DWB. I've seen black friends get harrassed. It f'ing sucks. Where the disconnect is is when it comes to killing. There are people that claim hundreds of unarmed blacks are killed every year by the cops when the number was like 15 in 2019 according to the Washington Post. There's a total disconnect in that regard. How many people do we hear say "as a black person I'm afraid to walk outside of my house each day because a cop may kill me." I'm sorry but there is an element of performative theater to that because the numbers do not bare that out.

 

[TTQ64]

Chauvin committed murder. I thought that through the whole trial.

so did zimmerman

 

[TTQ64]

It was on tape. A murder on tape. Thank God a jury figured it out. As for the reaction of the right on this one? Let them scream and yell and shout. They are shrinking away. The rest of us will now take this and hopefully go to work on the system that caused this to happen in the first place.

just remember the system isnt broken it is designed this way........there is a lot to d o and a deep dig to find the equality.

 

[BidenPresident]

I think a lot of what the defense did backfired. He kept mentioning the crowd (12 people?) as menacing. The jury may have thought, without them and their recordings, there may have been no trial and a murderer would go free.

 

[TTQ64]

Just spit balling here but there's two reasons I think we won't see major changes. The first is when crime picks up people become afraid and we pass tougher crime legislation. The other is the tribalism and partisanship, and even you referenced the right and left here as if each 'side' can only see things one way.

I would throw out how many people have heard of Tony Timpa? He was killed by the police in Dallas in 2016 the same as George Floyd. Yet no national media attention, no protests etc. The reason why? He was white. Just my opinion but if we really want reform there needs to be more buy in from people across the political spectrum and with the way its done now we don't get that.

why didnt his family protest?