Is the military taking a public relations hit on this?

Dutch Uncle said:
In a really bad situation the best place for you is in the middle of them. :)

Many moons ago I was temporarily assigned with the Japanese Ground Self-Defense Force as an observer for an exercise on the north end of Honshu. I was riding in the back of a Huey freezing my ass off because it was the dead of winter when I noticed that each pilot had a combat helmet and an M-16 under his seat. I asked them what those were for. The answer was that if they were shot down they'd join the ground forces. "Wow" I thought. Up to that point I'd always thought that if I went down with a load of grunts I'd surround myself with them and head back to the airfield. :)

Unlike the JGSDF with their standard issue M-16, all we were issued was a .45 (a .38 in the Navy). Anyone who read the book or saw the movie "The Bridges of Toko-Ri" knows why that's not very good.

While there was a traditional rivalry between the services and, in the Marine Corps, between the aviation side ("airdales") and the ground side ("grunts"), I'd do anything for them.
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except stop pointless oligarch power wars.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Background checks, even for recruits and most certainly for officers. As we've seen with the douchebags who ransacked the Capitol, most have had run-ins with the law. While it's true that "needs of the service" prevail such as Cheney's war in Iraq, radical extremism goes against the needs of the service. Sure, some slip through. Any active military who were arrested at the Capitol coup will undoubtedly face criminal military charges, something Trump won't be around to pardon.

Military personnel who require security clearances go through a more extensive background check. Note that Jared Kushner flunked his security clearance. While more can be done to eliminate extremism, how do you tell the difference between someone who participated in a Trump rally and someone who meets with white nationalists at Friday night poker games? Same for someone who participates in a peaceful BLM protest and someone who joined just to loot?

We have the tech to make every enlistee pass a polygraph and more thorough background check but that is cost prohibitive. The best way is training and enforcement. The military is not going to boot someone for their thoughts but it will certainly boot them out for their actions.
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an iq test would weed out the free thinkers.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Background checks, even for recruits and most certainly for officers. As we've seen with the douchebags who ransacked the Capitol, most have had run-ins with the law. While it's true that "needs of the service" prevail such as Cheney's war in Iraq, radical extremism goes against the needs of the service. Sure, some slip through. Any active military who were arrested at the Capitol coup will undoubtedly face criminal military charges, something Trump won't be around to pardon.

Military personnel who require security clearances go through a more extensive background check. Note that Jared Kushner flunked his security clearance. While more can be done to eliminate extremism, how do you tell the difference between someone who participated in a Trump rally and someone who meets with white nationalists at Friday night poker games? Same for someone who participates in a peaceful BLM protest and someone who joined just to loot?

We have the tech to make every enlistee pass a polygraph and more thorough background check but that is cost prohibitive. The best way is training and enforcement. The military is not going to boot someone for their thoughts but it will certainly boot them out for their actions.
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you're insane, man.
 
Micawber said:
False. I am still waiting for the chin out military crowd here to start even a single thread denouncing the scum who attacked our US Capitol.
Is there some reason that there are none?????? Plenty from the American citizens the right here spit on and call unpatriotic, every-single-day,
without a single instance of them attacking our government like Al Quaida did.

If it was al qaida climbing our capitol, every person here would be shouting get them, get them fucking now!!!!!!
Well, can I get a single thread? Even one? The silence is deafening.
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You aren't really a lawyer, are you? You just play one on the Internets. LOL

Here: https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ng-social-media-to-identify-MAGA-conspirators

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...FBI-offers-50-000-reward-for-Trump-terrorists

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Epic-Golden-Flounce-Plan-from-the-White-House
 
Micawber said:
Except those who attacked the capitol are not lawyers. None of them unless you can point them out to me. But a goodly number were ex military and Retrumplcans.
In fact lawyers saved the US in this instance.

The crux of my thread is about military people ON THIS WEBSITE none of whom have started a thread to clean the Republican house.
Can I extrapolate from that? Not in any particular instance. But ON THIS BOARD I CAN AND DO.

Try again.
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Link to your goodly number?

BTW, thanks for tacitly admitting Liberals don't join the military. LOL
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Disagreed, dude. You lumped all the vets together and accused them of being racist terrorists if they didn't board your anti-military bandwagon.
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Characterization aside, if you took it that way, then I apologize for that, on the honor of my deceased father's special forces coin he gave me.

Still, you attack me, I'm not attacking you. Do you concede the truth of what I said? Plenty of posters
here have claimed authoritative force of their thoughts by disclosing their US military service. Plenty have
used that appeal to their authority to, rightly or wrongly attack "dissident" opinion expressed here.
Do you concede there are zero threads started by such individuals decrying the attack on the US Capitol?
Am I wrong? These aren't demur shrinking violets I'm referring to here. They never hesitate to call people
who didn't attack the US Capitol unpatriotic. Yet, every damn day I pay some "patriot tax" for being on the
never Trump side of politics. This presents a unique opportunity for "put up," ....and "shut up" is all I see.

Being slightly more liberal than a damn Nazi does not make me unpatriotic. Silence while our US Capitol
is ransacked while elected officials hide for fear of lynching does.
 
Micawber said:
Characterization aside, if you took it that way, then I apologize for that, on the honor of my deceased father's special forces coin he gave me.

Still, you attack me, I'm not attacking you. Do you concede the truth of what I said? Plenty of posters
here have claimed authoritative force of their thoughts by disclosing their US military service. Plenty have
used that appeal to their authority to, rightly or wrongly attack "dissident" opinion expressed here.
Do you concede there are zero threads started by such individuals decrying the attack on the US Capitol?
Am I wrong? These aren't demur shrinking violets I'm referring to here. They never hesitate to call people
who didn't attack the US Capitol unpatriotic. Yet, every damn day I pay some "patriot tax" for being on the
never Trump side of politics. This presents a unique opportunity for "put up," ....and "shut up" is all I see.

Being slightly more liberal than a damn Nazi does not make me unpatriotic. Silence while our US Capitol
is ransacked while elected officials hide for fear of lynching does.
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where were you on blm riots?

protests are legal, dippy.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Background checks, even for recruits and most certainly for officers. As we've seen with the douchebags who ransacked the Capitol, most have had run-ins with the law. While it's true that "needs of the service" prevail such as Cheney's war in Iraq, radical extremism goes against the needs of the service. Sure, some slip through. Any active military who were arrested at the Capitol coup will undoubtedly face criminal military charges, something Trump won't be around to pardon.

Military personnel who require security clearances go through a more extensive background check. Note that Jared Kushner flunked his security clearance. While more can be done to eliminate extremism, how do you tell the difference between someone who participated in a Trump rally and someone who meets with white nationalists at Friday night poker games? Same for someone who participates in a peaceful BLM protest and someone who joined just to loot?

We have the tech to make every enlistee pass a polygraph and more thorough background check but that is cost prohibitive. The best way is training and enforcement. The military is not going to boot someone for their thoughts but it will certainly boot them out for their actions.
Click to expand...

Background checks don't always disclose someone's social/political beliefs and associations with certain groups do not automatically show up.

Polygraph tests are unreliable and good liars can defeat them.

There are even techniques used by agencies like the CIA and taught to agents, to fool a polygraph.

I do not believe police depts are knowingly hiring bigots and racists with an axe to grind against minorities.
 
Nomad said:
Background checks don't always disclose someone's social/political beliefs and associations with certain groups do not automatically show up.

Polygraph tests are unreliable and good liars can defeat them.

There are even techniques used by agencies like the CIA and taught to agents, to fool a polygraph.

I do not believe police depts are knowingly hiring bigots and racists with an axe to grind against minorities.
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Correct. It depends upon the thoroughness of the background check. Do you really think the FBI (who does background checks) and the US military can't keep up with the Universities who are booting out students for politically incorrect posts on Facebook?

Correct, but it's a screening. It will catch many but not all. Hence, again, the layered approach including after enlistment. BTW, once they take the oath, they are subject to the UCMJ. Going to Fort Leavenworth is a lot worse than being denied enlistment.

Correct. So? Are you saying just give up and do nothing?

Me neither. I do believe, however, that police who are constantly thrust into the most sordid areas of America tend to become jaded. Why do you think the military and police suicide rates are so high compared to the general public?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Correct. It depends upon the thoroughness of the background check. Do you really think the FBI (who does background checks) and the US military can't keep up with the Universities who are booting out students for politically incorrect posts on Facebook?

Correct, but it's a screening. It will catch many but not all. Hence, again, the layered approach including after enlistment. BTW, once they take the oath, they are subject to the UCMJ. Going to Fort Leavenworth is a lot worse than being denied enlistment.

Correct. So? Are you saying just give up and do nothing?

Me neither. I do believe, however, that police who are constantly thrust into the most sordid areas of America tend to become jaded. Why do you think the military and police suicide rates are so high compared to the general public?
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stop being a totalitarian twat is the suggestion, brainiac.
 
Nomad said:
I do not believe police depts are knowingly hiring bigots and racists with an axe to grind against minorities.
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I agree with this. But I think the culture of bigotry is pervasive to an extent and degree that the trappings, for lack of a better word, of human resource depts are doing an insufficient
job to combat that. That's simply the multiple case evidence.

When instances of brutality are seen all over the country, causing protests that are exploited and erupt into violent crime sprees and arsons of banks, etc.
I stop caring about intent. I start caring more about cause effect.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Correct. It depends upon the thoroughness of the background check. Do you really think the FBI (who does background checks) and the US military can't keep up with the Universities who are booting out students for politically incorrect posts on Facebook?

Correct, but it's a screening. It will catch many but not all. Hence, again, the layered approach including after enlistment. BTW, once they take the oath, they are subject to the UCMJ. Going to Fort Leavenworth is a lot worse than being denied enlistment.

Correct. So? Are you saying just give up and do nothing?

Me neither. I do believe, however, that police who are constantly thrust into the most sordid areas of America tend to become jaded. Why do you think the military and police suicide rates are so high compared to the general public?
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because selling your soul sucks.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Nice job slamming the American military. Are you going to spit on anyone who served too?
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I'm against these Bull sh!t wars that cause more problems than they solve??
Even
So I only have respect for my Vietnam Veteran father
His brother my uncle who was a Purple heart who got blown up in Vietnam
& their uncle my great uncle who died in Normandy fighting Nazi Germany for the USA.
Not to mention my WW2 veteran grandfather.
 
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