LOL, Biden so Senile and Moronic thinks websites have numbers

Damocles said:
So have most people born before 1980, even my mother knows what a URL is and she sucks at computers.

And I think McCain would likely have assigned somebody who knows what a URL is to oversee the website.
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LOL, he knows what a URL is, he just misspoke once and referred to an older technology. McCain probably doesn't even know how to use a computer. I imagine he's sipping some apple sauce right now.
 
Dungheap said:
From where does Devaney derive these magical CEO powers becuase statute creating the board of which he is chair merely has auditing powers:



Audits and reviews. That's it. Now, I'm not downplaying the importance of the audits and reviews, but Devaney and the board aren't implementing the bill. They're auditing the implementation.

Perhaps you could show me where Devaney and the board have these other powers you think they are wielding. I'd appreciate it.
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Devaney is the Chairman of the Board where Biden has been assigned a role in that same group. Basically. Devaney would be like the area manager of the Gas Station Company's Auditors....

Obama is set to name Earl Devaney as chairman of the new Recovery Act Transparency and Accountability Board, an administration official said Sunday. Vice President Joe Biden also will be given a role coordinating oversight of stimulus spending.
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http://www.truthout.org/022309B (yeah, truthout amazingly)

It is a board of auditors and oversight. And Biden has a "role". As I said, there are people who are in charge "the board" and there is Biden.

Obama also planned to tap Biden to meet regularly with Cabinet members, governors and mayors to make sure their efforts were quick and effective. His reports to Obama are expected to be posted at the administration Web site devoted to the bill, Recovery.gov.
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And as I said, "To go and see Governors and to report back and make sure we get our information."

I get my ideas directly from what I read. You give him more importance than he actually has, IMO. The entire group he is assigned a role in are "auditors" one of them is the Chairman, somebody else has the job to travel and report back.
 
Damocles said:
Devaney is the Chairman of the Board where Biden has been assigned a role in that same group. Basically. Devaney would be like the area manager of the Gas Station Company's Auditors....



http://www.truthout.org/022309B (yeah, truthout amazingly)

It is a board of auditors and oversight. And Biden has a "role". As I said, there are people who are in charge "the board" and there is Biden.



And as I said, "To go and see Governors and to report back and make sure we get our information."

I get my ideas directly from what I read. You give him more importance than he actually has, IMO. The entire group he is assigned a role in are "auditors" one of them is the Chairman, somebody else has the job to travel and report back.
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The problem with your analysis lies with pretending that Biden is part of the board. He isn't. Basically Biden's role is to coordinate among the various cabient officials and state and local officials to get the spending out. The Board is for auditing where that money goes.

While Biden's role does include oversight, he is primarily in charge of implementation of the bill, not oversight. Devaney reports to Biden.

I'd also note that you haven't shown me anything to suggest that Devaney will have a role apart from serving as the head of the auditing board.

Here's some more information for your edification, but as I said, you seem to have your mind made up on this one so I see little need to discuss it further:

President Barack Obama announced Vice President Joe Biden will oversee the Administration’s implementation of the Recovery Act’s provisions and the appointment of Earl Devaney as Chair of the Recovery Act Transparency and Accountability Board in a meeting with the Nation’s Governors this morning. The Vice President will meet regularly with key members of the Cabinet, Governors and Mayors to make sure their efforts are speedy and effective. He will also make regular, public reports to the President on implementation and those will be posted on Recovery.gov. The Chair of the Transparency and Accountability Board Earl Devaney will report to the Vice President.

"Beginning this week, Vice President Biden will meet regularly with key members of my cabinet to make sure our efforts are not just swift, but efficient and effective. He’ll also work closely with our nation’s Governors, and our Mayors, and everyone else involved in this effort, to keep things on track. The fact that I am asking the Vice President to personally lead this effort shows how important it is for our country and our future to get this right, and I thank him for his willingness to take on this critical task," President Obama told a group of Governors this morning. "I am also proud to announce the appointment of Earl Devaney as Chair of the Recovery Act Transparency and Accountability Board. For nearly a decade as Inspector General at the Interior Department, Earl has doggedly pursued waste, fraud and mismanagement, and Joe and I can’t think of a more tenacious and efficient guardian of the hard-earned tax dollars the American people have entrusted us to wisely invest."
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press...plementation-of-the-Recovery-Acts-Provisions/


Edit: Why do you say "truthout amazingly?" It's simply an Associated Press article.
 
evince said:
Just what you will say when the economy starts to turn arround and the 80% who liked Obama's speach last night become Dems or Indys and leave the R party?
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anyone with a brain know the economy will eventually turn around dear, if we can kick the Democrats out of it..
and someone who is a true conservative would never compromise their morals to become a Socialist Democrat and that's a majority of Americans..nice dream though.
 
Onceler said:
Really? I haven't seen any economist that agrees with that assessment.

Since you seem to feel that the seeds of this crisis were planted when the Dems & Obama took control, can you describe what the Congress did in 2007 & '08, and what Obama did in the past 30+ days, to cause the failure of the big 3, the mortgage/foreclosure crisis, the collapse of the banks and the downward spiral of the global economy?

I'll get the popcorn. Take your time.
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Nothing on this?

I was really hoping for some details. Should I keep waiting?
 
Dungheap said:
The problem with your analysis lies with pretending that Biden is part of the board. He isn't. Basically Biden's role is to coordinate among the various cabient officials and state and local officials to get the spending out. The Board is for auditing where that money goes.

While Biden's role does include oversight, he is primarily in charge of implementation of the bill, not oversight. Devaney reports to Biden.

I'd also note that you haven't shown me anything to suggest that Devaney will have a role apart from serving as the head of the auditing board.

Here's some more information for your edification, but as I said, you seem to have your mind made up on this one so I see little need to discuss it further:




http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press...plementation-of-the-Recovery-Acts-Provisions/


Edit: Why do you say "truthout amazingly?" It's simply an Associated Press article.
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No, I don't pretend he is part of the board. In fact, he is outside the board and "assigned a role". There is a Chairman (not Biden) and a board (not Biden) his job is to meet with governors and report back so it can be reported on the website.

Your problem is letting the smoke and mirrors reflect in misapplied hero worship for some reason. Biden was assigned to this to keep him out of the way while people who have a better grip on things like keyboards and the ever confusing website numbers do the actual work.

And I said that because that is where I linked. Duh. Perhaps you should pay more attention to website numbers.
 
Damocles said:
No, I don't pretend he is part of the board. In fact, he is outside the board and "assigned a role". There is a Chairman (not Biden) and a board (not Biden) his job is to meet with governors and report back so it can be reported on the website.

Your problem is letting the smoke and mirrors reflect in misapplied hero worship for some reason. Biden was assigned to this to keep him out of the way while people who have a better grip on things like keyboards and the ever confusing website numbers do the actual work.

And I said that because that is where I linked. Duh. Perhaps you should pay more attention to website numbers.
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Want me to draw an organizational chart for you? Obama would be at the top. Biden would be beneath him. Beneath Biden on the left hand side would be the cabinet secretaries who are in charge of funds. Beneath them would be governors. Beneath the governors would be the state and local implementation officials. Now, on the right hand side of the chart under Biden would be Devaney. Beneath him would be the other members of the Board. Beneath them would be the inspectors general of the various cabinet departments. Get it?

As for truthout, I realize that you linked to them but rarely when someone links to s source do they say "amazingly," particularly when it's just an AP article.
 
Dungheap said:
Want me to draw an organizational chart for you? Obama would be at the top. Biden would be beneath him. Beneath Biden on the left hand side would be the cabinet secretaries who are in charge of funds. Beneath them would be governors. Beneath the governors would be the state and local implementation officials. Now, on the right hand side of the chart under Biden would be Devaney. Beneath him would be the other members of the Board. Beneath them would be the inspectors general of the various cabinet departments. Get it?

As for truthout, I realize that you linked to them but rarely when someone links to s source do they say "amazingly," particularly when it's just an AP article.
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You can draw your imaginary chart all you want. I believe that reality is far different and that you swallowed the magic trick. "Because nobody messes with Joe!" You can call my chart imaginary if you wish, but it is based on my belief and information from articles, not on credulity of partisanship.

I read the story, it tells me what his job will be, and I use that to determine that they shuffled him on to the side. I believe that often things in politics are not as the politicians say they are and you often have to pay more attention to get the story.

He is a figurehead. They gave him a job to get him out of the way. That is my opinion and nothing you have posted here has swayed that opinion because the information from the stories tell me what his responsibilities will be.

As for truthout is is "amazingly" because it is a source I wouldn't usually link to. You can take that as you will, you clearly have glommed on to the unimportant aspects of a post and started off on a new straw man based on whatever importance you might garner from my stating that I amazingly posted a link from truthout. It was also based on earlier discussions today that Drudge posting is "useless" while "awesome" links to lefty sites would be ignored and even praised as superfantastic by the lefties on the site. In this case somebody started trying to defend them for doing the exact same thing that Drudge does, except he only links to them, posting information from a different source. Now I'll say amazingly again here, it is because I think that it really is amazing this time and it doesn't contain the same sarcasm.

Amazingly I wasn't attacking truthout even though you try to "defend" them. I was being semi-sarcastic and believed most people would remember that previous discussion from earlier today, I guess I forgot that on this site if you register as a Democrat you can't remember two posts, let alone a conversation earlier in the day.
 
Damocles said:
You can draw your imaginary chart all you want. I believe that reality is far different and that you swallowed the magic trick. "Because nobody messes with Joe!"

I read the story, it tells me what his job will be, and I use that to determine that they shuffled him on to the side. I believe that often things in politics are not as the politicians say they are and you often have to pay more attention to get the story.

He is a figurehead. They gave him a job to get him out of the way.
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The funniest thing about this is that you and I are talking about the same source of information. You're relying an article that repeats what a white house official told the AP prior to the official announcement. I'm relying on what the White House said when it made the official announcement. And, more importantly, the AP article doesn't say anything to contradict what I am saying.

It's really pretty simple. Biden has overall responsibility for coordinating with cabinet officials and state and local officials to get the money out and Deveney will report to him regarding his work on the auditing side of things to make sure that the money is spent wisely. It doesn't always have to be some nefarious plot just because you want it to be.

And really, there is no reason to put Biden in any position to get him out of the way. If you really want him out of the way just tell him to take care of his constitutional duties and don't give him any additional responsibilities.

For Christ's sake.


Edit to respond to your edit: The point you are missing is that regardless of the veracity of truthout, the piece that you link to that is posted on truthout is simply an Associate Press article. There's nothing amazing about it. It's the fucking AP. It's not original content by truthout. Similarly, I have no qualms with stories that Drudge links to and a cursory review of the thread in question would make that quite plain. The issue I have with Dano is that he cribs Drudge headlines (which themselves are skewed to Drudge's politics) and posts the pieces without much comment at all. I can get that by going to Drudge.
 
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Dungheap said:
The funniest thing about this is that you and I are talking about the same source of information. You're relying an article that repeats what a white house official told the AP prior to the official announcement. I'm relying on what the White House said when it made the official announcement. And, more importantly, the AP article doesn't say anything to contradict what I am saying.

It's really pretty simple. Biden has overall responsibility for coordinating with cabinet officials and state and local officials to get the money out and Deveney will report to him regarding his work on the auditing side of things to make sure that the money is spent wisely. It doesn't always have to be some nefarious plot just because you want it to be.

And really, there is no reason to put Biden in any position to get him out of the way. If you really want him out of the way just tell him to take care of his constitutional duties and don't give him any additional responsibilities.

For Christ's sake.


Edit to respond to your edit: The point you are missing is that regardless of the veracity of truthout, the piece that you link to that is posted on truthout is simply an Associate Press article. There's nothing amazing about it. It's the fucking AP. It's not original content by truthout. Similarly, I have no qualms with stories that Drudge links to and a cursory review of the thread in question would make that quite plain. The issue I have with Dano is that he cribs Drudge headlines (which themselves are skewed to Drudge's politics) and posts the pieces without much comment at all. I can get that by going to Drudge.
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Yes, I believe that earlier reports are much like freudian slips, in this case you get a real determination of what his responsibilities will be. One of the tricks of politics is to assign titles, the more the better, to smaller responsibilities. In this case, although there is a Chair and a Board they assigned him to the task of visiting governors and reporting back to the WH on occasion. If you notice in the report somebody who knows something realistically stated that the Secret Service dude was in charge and that Biden would be assigned to it too. I believe that Biden was an afterthought.

I will again note that this is an opinion, and I have noted earlier what I have based it on.

Edit to respond to your edit: Again, I used truthout because of the mini-irony of the earlier conversation that I expected, amazingly, people to remember.
 
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Damocles said:
Yes, I believe that earlier reports are much like freudian slips, in this case you get a real determination of what his responsibilities will be. One of the tricks of politics is to assign titles, the more the better, to smaller responsibilities. In this case, although there is a Chair and a Board they assigned him to the task of visiting governors and reporting back to the WH on occasion. If you notice in the report somebody who knows something realistically stated that the Secret Service dude was in charge and that Biden would be assigned to it too. I believe that Biden was an afterthought.

I will again note that this is an opinion, and I have noted earlier what I have based it on.

Edit to respond to your edit: Again, I used truthout because of the mini-irony of the earlier conversation that I expected, amazingly, people to remember.
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But it's the same report and same announcement. You draw your conclusions based on what you want to believe, which is fine, but I wish you would just admit it.

If you actually read the article again, you would see that the Secret Service dude is in charge of auditing and reports to Biden whereas Biden in responsible for overseeing the implementation of the bill.

Again, not difficult.


Edit: And you still haven't told me how Devaney as chairman of the oversight board is in charge of anything other than the auditing responsibilities delineated in the legislation that created the board. I mean, if the point were to put Devaney in charge of everything Obama could easily do that. He could simply name him and leave Biden to his constitutional duties.

In short, your theory makes zero sense on a variety of levels.
 
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Dungheap said:
But it's the same report and same announcement. You draw your conclusions based on what you want to believe, which is fine, but I wish you would just admit it.

If you actually read the article again, you would see that the Secret Service dude is in charge of auditing and reports to Biden whereas Biden in responsible for overseeing the implementation of the bill.

Again, not difficult.


Edit: And you still haven't told me how Devaney as chairman of the oversight board is in charge of anything other than the auditing responsibilities delineated in the legislation that created the board. I mean, if the point were to put Devaney in charge of everything Obama could easily do that. He could simply name him and leave Biden to his constitutional duties.

In short, your theory makes zero sense on a variety of levels.
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Again, "It's the same announcement!" doesn't change what I think and why.

If I were going to announce something like this I certainly wouldn't go out and say, "And to get Biden out of the way, I've given him a largely figurehead position that will keep him out of DC."

I would say, "And I'm putting Biden in charge of overseeing the overseers, because nobody messes with Joe!"

You can tell me that I should believe the second one, but I believe it is window dressing for the actual position. Biden has been moved out of the way. Whether it makes sense to a kool aid drinker doesn't really matter to me. I believe he has been given a figurehead position, and with a purpose.

And one more time. This entire entity (The Board chaired by Devaney) is solely an oversight board. Biden's position is to travel and visit governors and report back, while these guys get into the numbers and do the work. Biden's job was given to keep him out of the way, IMO. No matter how many times you point to what sentence somebody uses, you don't keep your most valuable adviser out talking to governors and reporting to you occasionally on progress.

It's okay, really. Even if you don't think I'm right it's okay. VPs are often used this way. Sent on trips to South America (Dan Quayle) for instance. You can sing the praises of foreign relations, but he was sent there to keep him out of the way. I can even see the thought. "If they believe he's coming because we think they're important all the better!" (Talking about Quayle here.)
 
Damocles said:
Again, "It's the same announcement!" doesn't change what I think and why.

If I were going to announce something like this I certainly wouldn't go out and say, "And to get Biden out of the way, I've given him a largely figurehead position that will keep him out of DC."

I would say, "And I'm putting Biden in charge of overseeing the overseers, because nobody messes with Joe!"

You can tell me that I should believe the second one, but I believe it is window dressing for the actual position. Biden has been moved out of the way. Whether it makes sense to a kool aid drinker doesn't really matter to me. I believe he has been given a figurehead position, and with a purpose.

And one more time. This entire entity (The Board chaired by Devaney) is solely an oversight board. Biden's position is to travel and visit governors and report back, while these guys get into the numbers and do the work. Biden's job was given to keep him out of the way, IMO. No matter how many times you point to what sentence somebody uses, you don't keep your most valuable adviser out talking to governors and reporting to you occasionally on progress.

It's okay, really. Even if you don't think I'm right it's okay. VPs are often used this way. Sent on trips to South America (Dan Quayle) for instance. You can sing the praises of foreign relations, but he was sent there to keep him out of the way. I can even see the thought. "If they believe he's coming because we think they're important all the better!" (Talking about Quayle here.)
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Biden's role is distinct from that of Devaney. Devaney is doing oversight and reports to Biden. Biden is doing implementation, working with the cabinet secretaries who disperse the funds and the governors and state and local officials that will spend the funds. They are two distinct and different tasks which you seem unable to comprehend: implementation and oversight. Devaney isn't doing implementation, he's only doing oversight. He's not getting into the numbers and doing the work, he's checking the numbers after the works has been done.

You may want to poo-poo the implementation portion as traveling to visit governors, but that doesn't make it so. And no, you don't send a valuable adviser out to visit with governors, but that's not what Biden is doing. You conveniently ignore that his role is to work with cabinet secretaries who will disperse the funds and governors who will spend the funds. Devaney then is responsible for ensuring that the funds that are dispersed are being spent wisely. Again, two distinct roles.

I see that your mind is made up on this one and that nothing will change it, but your theory doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
 
Dungheap said:
Biden's role is distinct from that of Devaney. Devaney is doing oversight and reports to Biden. Biden is doing implementation, working with the cabinet secretaries who disperse the funds and the governors and state and local officials that will spend the funds. They are two distinct and different tasks which you seem unable to comprehend: implementation and oversight. Devaney isn't doing implementation, he's only doing oversight. He's not getting into the numbers and doing the work, he's checking the numbers after the works has been done.

You may want to poo-poo the implementation portion as traveling to visit governors, but that doesn't make it so. And no, you don't send a valuable adviser out to visit with governors, but that's not what Biden is doing. You conveniently ignore that his role is to work with cabinet secretaries who will disperse the funds and governors who will spend the funds. Devaney then is responsible for ensuring that the funds that are dispersed are being spent wisely. Again, two distinct roles.

I see that your mind is made up on this one and that nothing will change it, but your theory doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Again, I believe that you simply fell for the smoke and mirrors. But that's okay. If you wish you can have the last word. It really isn't that important.
 
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