Despite the Ass-kissing, Stimulus Plan Passes Without a Single Republican Vote

[blackascoal]

If there is one thing that this crisis is producing, it's a large group of know-it-alls who think they can guarantee what works.

Gots news for you - no one knows what is going to work. There have been times in history that tax cuts have worked; there have been others when massive infrastructure spending did not. This is a time with no precedent.

You think you know what's going to do the trick, but you don't. I'm glad the bill embraces a variety of approaches.

I respect your perspective brother .. but Obama hasn't been in office two weeks yet .. there will be plenty of time and opportunity to further illustrate my point.

America is in crisis and it needs a leader, not a mediator.

 

[Onceler]

Darla, we completely disagree on the GOP having a "large seat at the table." Obama made a big show of meeting w/ them & inviting their input over the past few days, which I think is what prompted BAC's original post on this, but what fundamentally changed about the bill? Very little, and certainly nothing that bothered me. He took out the family planning stuff, which is important, but should be its own bill, and not part of something that has a goal of immediate stimulus.

And, for apparently having such influence, not one GOP Congressman voted for the final bill. The influence here is being massively overplayed. I agree with DH now - that this was pretty much just PR, but that's where it stopped. The way BAC has portrayed it on this thread, you would think Obama scrapped the Dem bill & adopted exactly what the Republicans wanted.

 

[blackascoal]

That's definitely true. But one thing that I think we do know is that the same people who destroyed everything, are now claiming that they know what to do, and they have a very large seat at the table Onceler. And I just wonder, how fucking wrong do you have to be, once you reach a certain level, to be kicked the hell out?

And I mean that for all of this stuff, the biggest example is William Kristol. Why are the same dopes who get us into this shit, still talking? More importantly, why is anyone still listening?

That is what bothers me.

But yeah, no one knows for sure, and certaintly be different aspects to the bill.

You touched on the problem .. been there, done that. We've been down the republican road of tax cuts .. they didn't work .. didn't stimulate the economy as they so vehemently declared they would. That wasn't just George Bush, it was the entire Republican Party.

Point being .. if no one knows what works, we sure as fuck know what does not work.

Why is what republicans want important in this conversation?

 

[Cancel7]

Darla, we completely disagree on the GOP having a "large seat at the table." Obama made a big show of meeting w/ them & inviting their input over the past few days, which I think is what prompted BAC's original post on this, but what fundamentally changed about the bill? Very little, and certainly nothing that bothered me. He took out the family planning stuff, which is important, but should be its own bill, and not part of something that has a goal of immediate stimulus.

And, for apparently having such influence, not one GOP Congressman voted for the final bill. The influence here is being massively overplayed. I agree with DH now - that this was pretty much just PR, but that's where it stopped. The way BAC has portrayed it on this thread, you would think Obama scrapped the Dem bill & adopted exactly what the Republicans wanted.

LOL. No I don't think that, but I think that the ideology that got us into this has had too big a seat, not necessarily just Republicans though.

But we'll see. I just hope it works because I am trying to grow a business myself.

 

[Onceler]

You touched on the problem .. been there, done that. We've been down the republican road of tax cuts .. they didn't work .. didn't stimulate the economy as they so vehemently declared they would. That wasn't just George Bush, it was the entire Republican Party.

Point being .. if no one knows what works, we sure as fuck know what does not work.

Why is what republicans want important in this conversation?

He did not "add" tax cuts after meeting with Republicans. As Damo pointed out, he talked about tax cuts throughout the campaign, both before & after the economic nosedive.

I don't know how you can conclude that "we know" tax cuts don't & won't work. They have at certain points in history, and many on both sides think they can be effective now.

 

[Cancel7]

You touched on the problem .. been there, done that. We've been down the republican road of tax cuts .. they didn't work .. didn't stimulate the economy as they so vehemently declared they would. That wasn't just George Bush, it was the entire Republican Party.

Point being .. if no one knows what works, we sure as fuck know what does not work.

Why is what republicans want important in this conversation?

Well, I personally believe that Republicans want imput because they want to stall the bill, they want the worst bill possible. I believe that they know, cause how can they not? that their ideology doesn't work, but that government spending and investment, will. And if they let that happen? Then they are dead as a party. This is the new deal then, all over again.

They will do anything, including driving this country into a depression, knowingly, to avoid that.

And not only do I believe that? But I believe that anyone who doesn't know this? Is an idiot!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I can't get over the whole Limbaugh thing. Hasn't that guy jumped the shark yet? It's nice to know that an impotent sweathog (no offense yurt) is calling the shots in this country.

Never heard that expression before... what does it mean to 'jump the shark'???

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Are you out of your mind? You do understand that we could be headed into an actual, real live, look ma no fucking jobs for anyone, depression right??

true... but if the 'stimulus' package has a massive chunk that is not 'stimulus' that does not create jobs, then it should be voted down. We need this money for job creation... not more handouts.

 

[blackascoal]

Darla, we completely disagree on the GOP having a "large seat at the table." Obama made a big show of meeting w/ them & inviting their input over the past few days, which I think is what prompted BAC's original post on this, but what fundamentally changed about the bill? Very little, and certainly nothing that bothered me. He took out the family planning stuff, which is important, but should be its own bill, and not part of something that has a goal of immediate stimulus.

And, for apparently having such influence, not one GOP Congressman voted for the final bill. The influence here is being massively overplayed. I agree with DH now - that this was pretty much just PR, but that's where it stopped. The way BAC has portrayed it on this thread, you would think Obama scrapped the Dem bill & adopted exactly what the Republicans wanted.

I hate to keep pointing this out, but you keep putting words in my mouth I never said nor implied. Neither this thread nor anything I've said, implied, nor typed suggest that Obama scrapped the "Dem" bill and adopted exactly what republicans wanted. The reason you keep doing this is because you're having difficulty arguing against what I've actually said.

In fact I actually said if the final bill ends up left-leaning I'd applaud Obama.

Nor was this thread prompted by Obama meeting with some republicans. I have been critical of Obama's love affair with right-wing even before he took office. I criticized his all too willingness to bend over and drop his pants during the campaign. This is merely a further illustration of Obama's reality .. and his weakness.

The notion that this is just some grand ploy by Obama is .. with all due respect .. absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Never heard that expression before... what does it mean to 'jump the shark'???

Jump the shark: when a phenomenon has passed it's zenith of interest level. It comes from The Happy Days Fonzy jumps the shark episode.
That was an act so desperate for attention and ratings, the phrase has stuck in our modern parlance.

 

[Cancel7]

Never heard that expression before... what does it mean to 'jump the shark'???

Really? Well, it means to go from really hot to really not.

It started in reference to tv shows, when they stopped being fresh. Usually when the two main leads finally "do it" or something like that. It was taken from Happy Days, when Fonzie, literally, jumped the shark, in an Evil Kneival like stunt. It signals the end of the best and the beginning of the big decline.

It's since grown into common usage to say, in shorthand, you are sooo 15 minutes ago.

 

[Chapdog]

We'll he certainly has justification for a good bitch slapping that is overdue.
Wife just informed me that her income keeps us just under Obama's cap to get the check.
WOOT!!!

What check?

 

[Cancel7]

true... but if the 'stimulus' package has a massive chunk that is not 'stimulus' that does not create jobs, then it should be voted down. We need this money for job creation... not more handouts.

If unemployed people get another 25 bucks a week, what do they do with that money?

 

[Chapdog]

My problem with this stimulus is its loaded with pandering. For example specific reference that no payout should be made to private school but only public schools is specific pandering to the teachers unions.

 

[Onceler]

I hate to keep pointing this out, but you keep putting words in my mouth I never said nor implied. Neither this thread nor anything I've said, implied, nor typed suggest that Obama scrapped the "Dem" bill and adopted exactly what republicans wanted. The reason you keep doing this is because you're having difficulty arguing against what I've actually said.

In fact I actually said if the final bill ends up left-leaning I'd applaud Obama.

Nor was this thread prompted by Obama meeting with some republicans. I have been critical of Obama's love affair with right-wing even before he took office. I criticized his all too willingness to bend over and drop his pants during the campaign. This is merely a further illustration of Obama's reality .. and his weakness.

The notion that this is just some grand ploy by Obama is .. with all due respect .. absolutely ridiculous.

I didn't say that's exactly what you said. I said that it's the impression one would get from reading some of what you argue, like your comment above that he bent over & dropped his pants for the GOP. I certainly did not see that at all, but I know we disagree on that.

If this wasn't either a ploy or just showmanship by Obama, you're going to have to show me where he caved to the GOP as a result of the meeting he had w/ them. If he is genuinely giving them clout and making fundamental changes as a result of their input, I'd like to see it.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I didn't say that's exactly what you said. I said that it's the impression one would get from reading some of what you argue, like your comment above that he bent over & dropped his pants for the GOP. I certainly did not see that at all, but I know we disagree on that.

If this wasn't either a ploy or just showmanship by Obama, you're going to have to show me where he caved to the GOP as a result of the meeting he had w/ them. If he is genuinely giving them clout and making fundamental changes as a result of their input, I'd like to see it.

Of course you didn't see it. Your head is up your ass, obscuring vision significantly.

 

[Cancel7]

My problem with this stimulus is its loaded with pandering. For example specific reference that no payout should be made to private school but only public schools is specific pandering to the teachers unions.

Or, it's pandering to the philosophy that public money = public money.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think it's incredibly naive to take Obama at face value. The appearance of bipartisanship is all that is needed and as between Obama, who is polling at 68% and John Boehner, Mike Pence and Eric Cantor who poll in the 20s and are taking marching order from Limbaugh, who do you think looks like the reasonable one?

So... out of curiosity... which left wingnut site put out the memo today???

Suddenly everyone is proclaiming that 'Rush is in charge of the Republican party'??

What a load of crap. (both Rush and the idiots who thinks he controls anyone)

 

[Chapdog]

Well, I'm of the mind that we've already had enough tax cuts. A lot of people on the right have found it useful to claim that if only the Democrats would go back to JFK, who after all, cut taxes.

Not one of them have ever asked; what was the tax rate that JFK cut? And, what is it now?

And when is it enough?

We know that on one side we have a radical element who want no taxes. The question is always, where do we stop before we get to that? And who gets hurt? What is the social contract? Do we have one? These are the questions, and they are what we fight for. I don't want to fight on the side of social darwinism. (I know that you do not either).

Have you started filing your taxes yet? LOL wait till you see how many loopholes and write offs are closed down now. Guaranteed higher effective tax rate.

 

[blackascoal]

Well, I personally believe that Republicans want imput because they want to stall the bill, they want the worst bill possible. I believe that they know, cause how can they not? that their ideology doesn't work, but that government spending and investment, will. And if they let that happen? Then they are dead as a party. This is the new deal then, all over again.

They will do anything, including driving this country into a depression, knowingly, to avoid that.

And not only do I believe that? But I believe that anyone who doesn't know this? Is an idiot!

One of the many reasons I'm not a democrat. They are weak as shit .. the entire fucking party .. weak as shit. They don't know how to lead.

They make excuses for weakness, even celebrate weakness.

All the knuckleheads and goosesteppers are not republicans.

Not a single republican voted for the plan .. which tells you they are orchestrated .. and what they plan is to destroy Obama at all costs.