What do Nazi and Confederate Flags have to do with ending the lockdown?

[Walt]

I should have to ask, because the British Empire killed probably 70 - 90 million.

The Soviets killed something like 30 -65 million.

The Communist Chinese killed something like 30 - 70 million.

The Nazis killed something like 35 - 45 million.

Why is only the flag of the last one treated wrong, instead of all of them?

The total number of slaves who had their lives cut short by slavery is in the tens of millions. Then throw in whole Native American societies eliminated...

But America did a lot of good also. To get to the high numbers of dead, you have to look at a hundred years. The same is true about the British. And both had the seeds of very good in them from the beginning. Indian British and black Americans today have all the rights promised to others before.

I am not going to defend the Chinese or Soviet Flags, but there are many who would defend both as doing good. Both Russia and China had long brutal histories before the communists, and the communists argue that they ended the extreme brutality. While both are still very brutal, it is nothing compared to before. I still believe they could have moved past their brutal past without so much brutality, and could have moved to being far less brutal societies in the present. But it is hard not to say things got better.

The Nazis killed so many, so quickly. There was no seed of good in their ideology, and little good in general. Those that fly the Nazi Flag today have no good in them.

 

[Walt]

All citizens and residents were placed under two week quarantine upon their return, choke on it.

Not true. Anyone could, and many did travel indirectly from China. There was no way to check for people switching planes, and in fact, layover flights were cheaper. Most people had no checks on their travel. Beyond that, the "quarantine" was a joke, and has been connected to several of the outbreaks in the USA. It was not implemented at first, and was later implemented embarrassingly badly.

Then there was the Coral Princess. It was known that several people on board had Covid-19. They were all allowed into Miami, INCLUDING RUSSIANS WHO DID NOT HAVE ENTRY VISAS. That is right, trump let illegal aliens into the USA, and illegal aliens that were so sick they could barely walk. They were allowed to enter the USA even though they had extensive criminal histories. They carried each other to the taxi stand, and then disappeared into America. Where are they? No one knows. How many of them have died? No one knows. How many other people did they infect? No one knows.

Why did trump allow this? They were white.

 

[Walt]

Again the community outbreaks didn't come from China they came from the EU.

Which is part of the reason that NYC was hit harder than California or Hawaii. People took cheaper flights from China to Europe and then on to NYC.

I think we can all admit that trump's response was an absolute disaster. I don't know why you continue to defend it.

 

[Walt]

No one else built factories for murder but Nazis

The Nazis did have the purest, most industrial genocide.

 

[Mason Melchizedek]

The Nazis did have the purest, most industrial genocide.

That's a good thing?

 

[Walt]

Wrong again: We’ve reached the coronavirus plateau. So when will the numbers begin to decline?

We may well have reached "a" plateau, but how would we know if we reached "the" plateau. As pandemics expand out from the hubs they tend to have a second rise. Also there are often second waves.

I do not see a logical reason for "the" plateau to be happening now.

 

[LV426]

I don't know why you continue to defend it.

I think I know why...

They live vicariously through him because they're in a cult of personality. Any criticism of Trump they take personally as criticism of themselves. So they have to defend him at all costs because they are, in effect, defending themselves.

Trump being a fraud means they bought into the fraud, and they can't admit to that because it would mean they're not as smart as they want you to think.

 

[LV426]

We may well have reached "a" plateau, but how would we know if we reached "the" plateau. As pandemics expand out from the hubs they tend to have a second rise. Also there are often second waves.

I do not see a logical reason for "the" plateau to be happening now.

Even Trump predicts we won't plateau until at least June 1st.

 

[Walt]

Are you saying that our population size magically gave us a larger production capacity for tests for a previously unknown virus?

Yes, a bigger country, and a bigger economy, would have more capacity than a smaller country and a smaller economy. Liechtenstein has about 40,000 people. I am pretty sure we have more virologists than they have people. I would be shocked if they had greater capacity than us. Jamaica has an economy one thousandth our size, and so would have much less capacity than the USA.

trump failed to test early enough, so now we have a pandemic running wild among 320 million. That means we need millions of tests per day to try to get this under control. The two factors in the number of tests we need are the size of our country, and how out of control the pandemic is.

 

[Walt]

The American Flag flew on ALL slave ships...but its the Confederate flag that is racist

The transatlantic slave trade was controlled by many countries, so many flags flew on slave ships. The US Flag was quite rare. The legal importation of slavery ended shortly after the Revolutionary War, so most slaves brought to the USA legally were brought before the US Flag existed. Those brought illegally were mostly brought under Spanish or other flags. There were a few slave ships that travelled briefly under US Flags, but they were far from all.

 

[Walt]

Just curious, just what should be done to prepare for the next pandemic; seeing as how so many people seem to be so well informed??

First and foremost, STOCKPILES!!! Lots and lots of "wasteful" government stockpiles of medical equipment. This is not the "big one" of pandemics, so whatever we would have needed for this one times ten or one hundred. Times one thousand would be silly, but you get the point.

Second, more integration with the world community. We used to have a US CDC office literally in the Chinese CDC. American epidemiologists used to travel with the Chinese epidemiologists. We do not know where the next pandemic will come from, so we should have similar offices in Africa, Central Asia, Southern Asia, and of course China.

Third, enough infrastructure to make all types of vaccines and all types of medicines. This is basically an extension of the first point, stockpiles. It looks wasteful, until it is not wasteful. We can use it to make vaccines and other low cost medicines, but will lose money on it... Until it saves the USA. Remember we also lose money on the military.

And fourth, planning... This is real. Evolution is real. We need to plan for it.

 

[Walt]

If there are ten people sitting at a table and they're talking to a Nazi, you have a table of 11 Nazis.

Completely false assumption. What if they don't know he is a Nazi? What if they are trying to change his views?

If 10 liberals are sitting at a table talking to a conservative does that mean you have a table of 11 conservatives?

It is a common German saying. It means that talking to Nazis as if they are reasonable is the same as being a Nazi. It means trying to use reason to change a Nazis views just helps normalize Nazism.

Here is another German saying, "everything has an end, except for sausages, they have two ends."

 

[FreeSpeech]

Which is part of the reason that NYC was hit harder than California or Hawaii. People took cheaper flights from China to Europe and then on to NYC.

I think we can all admit that trump's response was an absolute disaster. I don't know why you continue to defend it.

They also spread it in the EU and EU citizens traveled here in turn.

Again under Trump we found, developed, got FDA approval for, mass produced, and mass distributed test kits in record time, we have tested millions more than any other country, and the vaccine looks ready to be coming out in record time as well, and what ever happened to all those hospital bed and ventilator shortages which were predicted? We don't here about that anymore do we?

 

[Walt]

You said a person does not choose to be Jewish. My point is that many people (and some nations) do choose to be Jewish.

The Nazi definition of who is Jewish was not based on religion. They killed Catholic and Protestant priests who happened to have Jewish ancestors. These people did not chose to be Jewish, and in fact choose not to be Jewish. In the end, it did not matter.

I forget the exact quote, but it goes something like, "it is not the blood that flows in my veins, but rather the blood that flows from my veins that makes me Jewish." I am getting that quote wrong, but it basically says that it is the persecution for being Jewish that makes us Jewish.

The Nazis were more confused by those who converted to Judaism, so in some cases you had a point there.

 

[FreeSpeech]

Not true. Anyone could, and many did travel indirectly from China. There was no way to check for people switching planes, and in fact, layover flights were cheaper. Most people had no checks on their travel. Beyond that, the "quarantine" was a joke, and has been connected to several of the outbreaks in the USA. It was not implemented at first, and was later implemented embarrassingly badly.

The travel restrictions were on the Wuhan province the epicenter of the outbreak which in turn was on domestic lockdown. The quarantine was mandatory and there is no evidence that any community outbreaks came from people placed under quarantine.

Then there was the Coral Princess. It was known that several people on board had Covid-19. They were all allowed into Miami, INCLUDING RUSSIANS WHO DID NOT HAVE ENTRY VISAS. That is right, trump let illegal aliens into the USA, and illegal aliens that were so sick they could barely walk. They were allowed to enter the USA even though they had extensive criminal histories. They carried each other to the taxi stand, and then disappeared into America. Where are they? No one knows. How many of them have died? No one knows. How many other people did they infect? No one knows.

Why did trump allow this? They were white.

Pure fantasy noone was allowed off without getting tested and for those who were allowed to disembark were placed on charter flights to their home nations or states:

"Coral Princess was diverted and finally docked at the Port of Miami on the afternoon of 4 April with its over 1,000 passengers and 878 crew members. A CNN report that evening indicated that two passengers had died and some others were ill, including the 12 that had tested positive for COVID-19. Those who were not ill were to disembark when flights to their destinations were available; this was expected to take some days.[308] A subsequent news report later that evening stated that four passengers were scheduled to be taken to Florida hospitals and added that 67 persons would not be allowed to disembark.[309]

On 6 April, the death of a third passenger was announced.[310] By that afternoon, 684 passengers had disembarked, those who needed medical care had been taken from the vessel and 274 were still on the Coral Princess. Charter flights had departed to Canada, California, Australia and the United Kingdom; others were expected to leave Florida the next day.[311]

The vessel left Port Miami on 10 April 2020 with its crew and 13 international passengers who were unable to return to their home countries due to travel restrictions. No destination was revealed but it appeared that the ship would initially remain at sea for a period of quarantine.[312]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_cruise_ships#Coral_Princess

 

[Walt]

You must have forgotten the mass shootings by Christians, Muslims, and other groups. We are not just talking about the Tree of Life or El Paso, but killings in the U. S. The FBI said the gravest domestic threat on an equal footing with ISIS

I have to disagree with the FBI. ISIS has little to no agency in the USA, while all domestic terrorists are by definition in the USA. ISIS is nowhere near equal footing with domestic terrorists. They may inspire a domestic terrorist from time to time, but even that is extremely rare. Most domestic terrorists are inspired by right wing ideology, whether Christian or secular.

 

[BattleofHodow]

The Nazi definition of who is Jewish was not based on religion. They killed Catholic and Protestant priests who happened to have Jewish ancestors. These people did not chose to be Jewish, and in fact choose not to be Jewish. In the end, it did not matter.

I forget the exact quote, but it goes something like, "it is not the blood that flows in my veins, but rather the blood that flows from my veins that makes me Jewish." I am getting that quote wrong, but it basically says that it is the persecution for being Jewish that makes us Jewish.

The Nazis were more confused by those who converted to Judaism, so in some cases you had a point there.

The Nazis didn't just kill Catholic clergy with Jewish ancestors.

Some of them were just killed for being Polish, like Max Kolbe.

Some German Catholic priests ended up in the camps, just for being anti-Nazi.

 

[FreeSpeech]

Yes, a bigger country, and a bigger economy, would have more capacity than a smaller country and a smaller economy. Liechtenstein has about 40,000 people. I am pretty sure we have more virologists than they have people. I would be shocked if they had greater capacity than us. Jamaica has an economy one thousandth our size, and so would have much less capacity than the USA.

trump failed to test early enough, so now we have a pandemic running wild among 320 million. That means we need millions of tests per day to try to get this under control. The two factors in the number of tests we need are the size of our country, and how out of control the pandemic is.

More people =/= more production capacity by default, show me the evidence that the US had a production capacity for test kit production for a previously unknown virus proportionate to our population. We mat have more virologists but that does not mean we have more of the machines needed to produce the test kits.

 

[LV426]

Again under Trump we found, developed, got FDA approval for, mass produced, and mass distributed test kits in record time,]

Record time? Measured against what?

While South Korea was testing 55,000 people a day, we tested 420 in a month.

We need at least 30 million tests a day, and we're nowhere near that and will never be near that because Trump didn't take this seriously from the outset.

Expect social distancing to continue through the year, until there's a vaccine.

 

[BattleofHodow]

The Soviet Flag is frowned upon also. You could add the American Flag, a lot of Native Americans and black slaves died under that flag. But a lot of good was done under the American Flag. There is good that was done under the British Flag. There are over a billion people, many of them fine people, who currently gladly live under the Chinese Flag. No one currently lives under the Soviet Flag, so we remember more of the bad stuff under it. The Nazi Flag has almost nothing but bad stuff, so it is the most reviled of them all.

I just have never seen any nice person fly the Nazi Flag. Maybe there were some in the 1930's, but not during my lifetime. I have seen many, many nice people with American and British Flags.

The Soviet flag is kind of accepted, kind of not.

Communist Chinese butchered a ton too.

The British Empire killed a ton too.