Socialism Pt 3: Socialism that trump loves

[Sailor]

That's no secret

It should not be, though personally I still did not agree with it.

 

[Althea]

I notice how you sidestepped all the preferential treatment Congress makes as far as borrowing cheaply, tax breaks, laws prohibiting other businesses from doing what they do, and the multiple other benefits given to the USPS by the U.S., subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer. No private entity gets that preferential treatment from Congress. Basically the U.S. taxpayer keeps them afloat. That is why they continue to operate while never making a fucking dime.

Soft backpedal. No taxpayer money supports the USPS. And you're not reading the small print. No other entity can deliver mail/package to a business/home MAILBOX.

Millions of letters/packages are delivered every day by a number of private companies, at 20 times the cost of USPS.


They're NONPROFIT for fuck's sake

 

[CFM]

You did.

What statement? I was asking a question!

I am quite conservative, almost libertarian. Pay attention.

I do consider welfare payments to farmers socialism. You challenged that. Why? If welfare payments to farmers is not socialism, what is it?

You're not a very good listener or you're too fucking stupid to comprehend. When you figure out which one, let me know. There aren't any other options.

You're far from conservative. This profile and your StoneByStone profile are basically the same. If you're going to have multiple accounts, at least try to have them "believe" differently.

 

[CFM]

And as I said, partially socialistic, but still market based

You changed your tune from earlier

"Again, any time Gov't involves itself in the economy it is socialistic"

That doesn't say partially.

That's why no one that matters believes what you say. You can't remember what you said.

 

[Ralph]

There are some types of socialism Trump loves​

Zach Wolf

Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN


(CNN)President Donald Trump isn't known for ideological consistency but his demand of credit for a second multibilllion-dollar bailout of US farmers creates a new level of discord with his attacks on socialism.

On Thursday, the Trump administration released details of a new raft of handouts to US farmers caught in the middle of the President's trade standoff with China.
This is not to criticize the farmers, whose livelihoods are tied to international trade, which Trump has threatened by starting a trade war with China.
It is to point out that days earlier, when Trump claimed credit in a tweet for helping out the farmers, he was seeking praise for an effort to duct-tape a problem that he very much created.

"Farmers are starting to do great again, after 15 years of a downward spiral. The 16 Billion Dollar China 'replacement' money didn't exactly hurt!"

Set aside that the farmers' predicament has been singly created by his nationalist trade policy or that this is the second such relief effort he's had to greenlight (an earlier program totaled $12 billion in payments to farmers).

It is even harder to square his government props for farmers with the demonizing of socialism he has pursued as a campaign tactic, poking at a festering divide in the Democratic Party.

A few days before he was seeking praise for bailing out the farmers, Trump was attacking four lawmakers, all minority women, when he pledged again on Twitter that the US would never be a socialist country.

"We will never be a Socialist or Communist Country. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE! It is your choice, and your choice alone. This is about love for America. Certain people HATE our Country ... ," he tweeted.

Certainly, helping farmers is not the first step to socialism. But it is definitely an example of the government doing more to help its citizens, which is the general idea behind a lot of the more socialist tendencies the President has attacked.

More @ source

And? Have you forgotten that Donald John Trump is a democrat that was forced to run as a Republican because the democrat party moved so far left its members have to stand on one leg to take a piss? So...a democrat uses socialism to bait democrats into voting for him. What's the news? Trump is in the mold of a "real" democrat such as JFK or Truman, he is not a communist, just a democrat.

The problem you face? Those who placed him behind the resolute desk.....are democrats as well, the blue collar workers of the Blue Wall States. Have you also forgotten that the Republican's attacked Mr. Trump with the same hate that you are demonstrating? He must be doing something correct to have both GOOD OLE BOY elite professional political parties squealing like the pigs they are.... He has had a great week no? Wall funding as SCOTUS kicks the radical left wing judges ass to the curb and declares as Chief Executive Mr. Trump can spend his money the way he sees fit....then we have the testimony of Alzheimer Bob that put the nail in the impeachment coffin.....now he has done an end run around a left wing congress and went to Mexico and other nations to take in the criminals migrating to the US seeking asylum …..doing what congress refused to do.....obey the rule of law. He just signed a major deal with the nation of Guatemala

I would be bitching and slinging snot also....If I would have had such a disastrous week. Go for it....let it out.....cry. No one is endorsing socialism.....Trump is just dealing in REALITY.....when you still have about 1/2 the nation sucking on the government TITTY it takes time to ween the weak from the tit and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. Let a left wing congress investigate a NON CRIME until their cows come home to fart in their own pastures....in the meantime TRUMP is kicking ass and literally taking names (Barr/Durham investigation).

 

[Bill]

And? Have you forgotten that Donald John Trump is a democrat that was forced to run as a Republican because the democrat party moved so far left its members have to stand on one leg to take a piss? So...a democrat uses socialism to bait democrats into voting for him. What's the news? Trump is in the mold of a "real" democrat such as JFK or Truman, he is not a communist, just a democrat.

The problem you face? Those who placed him behind the resolute desk.....are democrats as well, the blue collar workers of the Blue Wall States. Have you also forgotten that the Republican's attacked Mr. Trump with the same hate that you are demonstrating? He must be doing something correct to have both GOOD OLE BOY elite professional political parties squealing like the pigs they are.... He has had a great week no? Wall funding as SCOTUS kicks the radical left wing judges ass to the curb and declares as Chief Executive Mr. Trump can spend his money the way he sees fit....then we have the testimony of Alzheimer Bob that put the nail in the impeachment coffin.....now he has done an end run around a left wing congress and went to Mexico and other nations to take in the criminals migrating to the US seeking asylum …..doing what congress refused to do.....obey the rule of law. He just signed a major deal with the nation of Guatemala

I would be bitching and slinging snot also....If I would have had such a disastrous week. Go for it....let it out.....cry. No one is endorsing socialism.....Trump is just dealing in REALITY.....when you still have about 1/2 the nation sucking on the government TITTY it takes time to ween the weak from the tit and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. Let a left wing congress investigate a NON CRIME until their cows come home to fart in their own pastures....in the meantime TRUMP is kicking ass and literally taking names (Barr/Durham investigation).

Well I agree he is a dem in many ways, now your party is too.

No, Ralph, it aint his money, it's our money.... OUR MONEY THIS DEM IS SPENDING-NOT MEXICO'S, AS HE PROMISED...

A bit wordy there Ralph. Intelligent ppl use big words so they can convey their thoughts in few of them, Mark Twain was an expert @ it they say....

 

[Sailor]

Soft backpedal. No taxpayer money supports the USPS. And you're not reading the small print. No other entity can deliver mail/package to a business/home MAILBOX.

Millions of letters/packages are delivered every day by a number of private companies, at 20 times the cost of USPS.


They're NONPROFIT for fuck's sake

They certainly get taxpayers money to the tune of 18 billion dollars a year. The fortune article clearly shows it. You are in your typical liberal denial stage when faced with facts.

 

[archives]

And? Have you forgotten that Donald John Trump is a democrat that was forced to run as a Republican because the democrat party moved so far left its members have to stand on one leg to take a piss? So...a democrat uses socialism to bait democrats into voting for him. What's the news? Trump is in the mold of a "real" democrat such as JFK or Truman, he is not a communist, just a democrat.

The problem you face? Those who placed him behind the resolute desk.....are democrats as well, the blue collar workers of the Blue Wall States. Have you also forgotten that the Republican's attacked Mr. Trump with the same hate that you are demonstrating? He must be doing something correct to have both GOOD OLE BOY elite professional political parties squealing like the pigs they are.... He has had a great week no? Wall funding as SCOTUS kicks the radical left wing judges ass to the curb and declares as Chief Executive Mr. Trump can spend his money the way he sees fit....then we have the testimony of Alzheimer Bob that put the nail in the impeachment coffin.....now he has done an end run around a left wing congress and went to Mexico and other nations to take in the criminals migrating to the US seeking asylum …..doing what congress refused to do.....obey the rule of law. He just signed a major deal with the nation of Guatemala

I would be bitching and slinging snot also....If I would have had such a disastrous week. Go for it....let it out.....cry. No one is endorsing socialism.....Trump is just dealing in REALITY.....when you still have about 1/2 the nation sucking on the government TITTY it takes time to ween the weak from the tit and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. Let a left wing congress investigate a NON CRIME until their cows come home to fart in their own pastures....in the meantime TRUMP is kicking ass and literally taking names (Barr/Durham investigation).

Rush couldn't have put it any better

 

[archives]

You changed your tune from earlier

"Again, any time Gov't involves itself in the economy it is socialistic"

That doesn't say partially.

That's why no one that matters believes what you say. You can't remember what you said.

"c" still shows he doesn't understand economics

There is no such thing as a pure socialist nor capitalist economy, all economies are mixed, part socialist and part capitalist, the US economy has had socialistic elements since the 19th Century, it is "partially" socialistic as partially capitalist

Was the ACA socialistic, as I said partially, it involved government interference while market based

Can't make it any easier

 

[Gonzomin]

Utter hogwash. The USPS receives tax money only for servicing overseas military. They don't receive a dime of taxpayer money otherwise. They lose money on mail delivery because it isn't profitable. No for profit company can service every home/business in the country for the same price.


USPS is funded by postage. Period. The losses cited in the biased Forbes article don't mention Bush's attempt to kill the USPS by forcing them to pre fund retiree health benefits for people who weren't even born yet.

At least you learned something in this thread.

Post office loses money because of Republican laws that made them pay retirements within 10 years for retirements 75 years into the future. It, of course, is because they are unionized. That is the same reason teachers and government workers have been demonized. It will not end until the wealthy have eliminated unions.Then the "generous" ownership society"kill benefits and wage levels.

 

[Bill]

Rush couldn't have put it any better

limbaugh lacks the sac to cross trump in any way.. Only pundit on the right, that I hear now & then w/ any balls is coulter

 

[Bill]

Post office loses money because of Republican laws that made them pay retirements within 10 years for retirements 75 years into the future. It, of course, is because they are unionized. That is the same reason teachers and government workers have been demonized. It will not end until the wealthy have eliminated unions.Then the "generous" ownership society"kill benefits and wage levels.

Some good points, I would also add they are forced to go into many areas where it is not profitable, their rates do not reflect their costs, & they have bozos in congress that can't even balance a budget always telling them what to do..........

 

[Althea]

They certainly get taxpayers money to the tune of 18 billion dollars a year. The fortune article clearly shows it. You are in your typical liberal denial stage when faced with facts.

One day, you will surprise us and read more than the title of the crap you offer as proof. The USPS gets no taxpayer money aside from what they get to service overseas military.

The losses that Forbes refuses to address, are a direct result of Bush's attempt to kill the USPS.

https://about.usps.com/publications/pub100/pub100_061.htm

The act divided postal products into market-dominant and competitive categories; created the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) out of the Postal Rate Commission and increased the PRC’s regulatory powers; returned the obligation to pay military service costs to the Department of Treasury; and replaced escrow requirements to fund retiree health benefits.

Forced USPS to pre fund retiree health benefits for people who aren't even born yet.

I have a distinct advantage over you, as I have friends who have worked for the USPS for decades. We've had quite a few interesting discussions...me being anti union, and they being pro union.

But...I've learned quite a bit about what is, and isn't true about the USPS.

Your Forbes nonsense is severely lacking, and does NOT prove the assertion in the header.

 

[Althea]

Post office loses money because of Republican laws that made them pay retirements within 10 years for retirements 75 years into the future. It, of course, is because they are unionized. That is the same reason teachers and government workers have been demonized. It will not end until the wealthy have eliminated unions.Then the "generous" ownership society"kill benefits and wage levels.

By law, any 'profits' the USPS made went directly to the Treasury to fund retiree health benefits. Bush and his fellow Republikans tried to privatize the industry by killing the USPS.

Yes...they forced USPS to pre fund benefits 75 years in advance. I can't think of any similar demand on Fed Ex/Ups/etc?

 

[PoliTalker]

There are some types of socialism Trump loves​

Zach Wolf

Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN


(CNN)President Donald Trump isn't known for ideological consistency but his demand of credit for a second multibilllion-dollar bailout of US farmers creates a new level of discord with his attacks on socialism.

On Thursday, the Trump administration released details of a new raft of handouts to US farmers caught in the middle of the President's trade standoff with China.
This is not to criticize the farmers, whose livelihoods are tied to international trade, which Trump has threatened by starting a trade war with China.
It is to point out that days earlier, when Trump claimed credit in a tweet for helping out the farmers, he was seeking praise for an effort to duct-tape a problem that he very much created.

"Farmers are starting to do great again, after 15 years of a downward spiral. The 16 Billion Dollar China 'replacement' money didn't exactly hurt!"

Set aside that the farmers' predicament has been singly created by his nationalist trade policy or that this is the second such relief effort he's had to greenlight (an earlier program totaled $12 billion in payments to farmers).

It is even harder to square his government props for farmers with the demonizing of socialism he has pursued as a campaign tactic, poking at a festering divide in the Democratic Party.

A few days before he was seeking praise for bailing out the farmers, Trump was attacking four lawmakers, all minority women, when he pledged again on Twitter that the US would never be a socialist country.

"We will never be a Socialist or Communist Country. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE! It is your choice, and your choice alone. This is about love for America. Certain people HATE our Country ... ," he tweeted.

Certainly, helping farmers is not the first step to socialism. But it is definitely an example of the government doing more to help its citizens, which is the general idea behind a lot of the more socialist tendencies the President has attacked.

More @ source

He was against it before he was for it

 

[Sailor]

One day, you will surprise us and read more than the title of the crap you offer as proof. The USPS gets no taxpayer money aside from what they get to service overseas military.

The losses that Forbes refuses to address, are a direct result of Bush's attempt to kill the USPS.

https://about.usps.com/publications/pub100/pub100_061.htm




Forced USPS to pre fund retiree health benefits for people who aren't even born yet.

I have a distinct advantage over you, as I have friends who have worked for the USPS for decades. We've had quite a few interesting discussions...me being anti union, and they being pro union.

But...I've learned quite a bit about what is, and isn't true about the USPS.

Your Forbes nonsense is severely lacking, and does NOT prove the assertion in the header.

Another lame attempt at a spin. No surprise. And of course ZERO comment on the 18 BILLION dollars in subsidies a year the USPS receives from the taxpayers to keep it going. I could give a flying fuck if you have friends that work for the USPS. Facts are facts and the USPS relies on government subsidies to survive. If they were a real business they would have been bankrupt and gone years ago. They have already lost 4 billion last year and are on track to lose 7 billion this year.
https://reason.com/2019/05/10/post-service-lost-2-billion-in-three-months/

 

[Althea]

Another lame attempt at a spin. No surprise. And of course ZERO comment on the 18 BILLION dollars in subsidies a year the USPS receives from the taxpayers to keep it going. I could give a flying fuck if you have friends that work for the USPS. Facts are facts and the USPS relies on government subsidies to survive. If they were a real business they would have been bankrupt and gone years ago. They have already lost 4 billion last year and are on track to lose 7 billion this year.
https://reason.com/2019/05/10/post-service-lost-2-billion-in-three-months/

Prove It. No need to comment on some false narrative you cooked up. Read your own article. They cannot make the case for that claim. They are NOT subsidized by the taxpayer. That's just idiotic.


I guess I can type it slower this time...They are non profit. By law, they are not allowed to profit.

 

[Into the Night]

Whew, and I thought his "dissertations" on science were strange

Because you deny science and mathematics. I see you deny economics and history as well.

Fascism, a political ideology, isn't germane to socialism, an economic concept, actually the regimentation of the economy is just as much associated with left wing and right wing dictatorships,

There is no such thing as a right wing dictatorship. Fascism is a form of socialism. It is control of production and distribution by the government.

your transition from Marx to Hitler to Hoover and Roosevelt is flat out weird

Oh? Hoover implemented many socialist programs. FDR implement many more of them and enhanced upon Hoover's. Most were thrown out by the Supreme Court, until FDR threatened to pack the court.

The fact conservatives can't accept, leastwise from what I have seen on this forum, is that America has been partially socialist dating back to the 19th Century,

No. The United States is organized as a federated republic. It is primarily capitalist in nature as a result. Socialist programs fail. They are theft of wealth.

just like the rest of the world,

We are not like the rest of the world.

the US has a mixed economy, it is part socialist, part capitalist.

Socialist programs, implemented in fascist forms when they are implemented in the United States, causes misery and suffering. They fail. They are implemented through unconstitutional means.

 

[Into the Night]

Wait. Isn't "welfare" also bad? Or is that only when a (D) is POTUS?

Government welfare is bad. It is wasteful and theft of wealth.

 

[Althea]

Another lame attempt at a spin. No surprise. And of course ZERO comment on the 18 BILLION dollars in subsidies a year the USPS receives from the taxpayers to keep it going. I could give a flying fuck if you have friends that work for the USPS. Facts are facts and the USPS relies on government subsidies to survive. If they were a real business they would have been bankrupt and gone years ago. They have already lost 4 billion last year and are on track to lose 7 billion this year.
https://reason.com/2019/05/10/post-service-lost-2-billion-in-three-months/

Read your own shit for once:

In its quarterly fiscal report, published today, the Post Office reported small decreases in mail volume and overall revenue compared to the same quarter of 2018. Its big losses are driven by a sharp increase in expenses, primarily workers' compensation costs, pension liabilities, and payments for retirees' health benefits.

They don't just get to raise prices like Fed Ex/Ups. They have to get approval for postage hikes.