The American Way.

[LV426]

Wow. Well...ummm...okay.

A bit extreme...but I get your point.

I wonder if the lesson could be taught without the executions and stringing of bodies, though.

Personally, I don't think there's anything short of physical harm that could be done to these people to stop them from doing what they do, or deter others from acting the same way.

Did you ever see The Dark Knight Rises? There's a scene where Scarecrow holds a court and they try the greedy, disgusting, corrupt wealthy assholes in what is basically a court in front of the people, then they sentence them to walk along the ice until they reach the other side, or fall through into the water. Something like that would have been deeply satisfying for the American people and it would have deterred future instances of intentional fraud.

 

[montgomery]

Personally, I wouldn't vote for a Democrat over age 60 in the primary. We need youth. I love Bernie, voted for him in the 2016 primary, but I think his function as a kingmaker is what his role should be now. Let Bernie be the progressive conscience of the Democratic Party.

We need youth, and I think there's plenty of awesome young candidates like Abrams, Gillibrand, Gillum, and O'Rourke. I also like Cory Booker despite him being more of a technocrat in the vein of Clinton rather than a populist in the vein of Sanders. I think he can balance the two and transition us to where we need to go; same with Kamala Harris. She's a great technocrat, and would be a capable President.

If there's going to be a Democrat over age 60, Sherrod Brown would be the only one I'd consider. But I'd rather keep him in the Senate because 1) can't give up that OH seat and 2) like Warren, that's where he's most effective.

You mentioned 'transistion' and so that tells me you have the key in your pocket. And I'll at least say that a transitioning is as good a way of accmplishing the goal as an outright abandoning of the Dem party. However, I suggest that it could have it's pitfalls because it leaves open the opportunity of the Dem party lying to the people in order to save their asses and the asses of the establishment.

For example, the Dem party's adopted position of Russia/Putin hate is completely contrary to a new and successful move for America. The rest of the world has grown too strong now for the usual US confrontational way of doing business. Co-operation is the only way of making it work for the future.

And thanks for taking part on this topic and your useful and well thought out replies.

 

[Boris The Animal]

You should care what the world thinks since we live in a globalized economy.

Which has been nothing but a disaster for the US. I don't care what a turd world tinpot or some Euroweenie says.

 

[Boris The Animal]

Did you actually READ what Montgomery wrote?

The middle class in America is shrinking. Is THAT the American way?

Ahh yes, the "middle" class, which is NOT natural for any society.

 

[LV426]

You mentioned 'transistion' and so that tells me you have the key in your pocket. And I'll at least say that a transitioning is as good a way of accmplishing the goal as an outright abandoning of the Dem party. However, I suggest that it could have it's pitfalls because it leaves open the opportunity of the Dem party lying to the people in order to save their asses and the asses of the establishment.

For example, the Dem party's adopted position of Russia/Putin hate is completely contrary to a new and successful move for America. The rest of the world has grown too strong now for the usual US confrontational way of doing business. Co-operation is the only way of making it work for the future.

And thanks for taking part on this topic and your useful and well thought out replies.

I don't think you can co-operate with Russia, but I think you can with our traditional European allies. I do think we need to be more confrontational to Russian cyber aggression, and the sanctions were a key part of that. But Trump...you know...not enforcing sanctions and having the GOP defend Russia...

For me, any candidate that brags about their "moderate" bonafides is a non-starter candidate for me. I don't want moderates because the Overton window has been pushed so far to the right that "moderate" is just code for "Republican circa 1992"; pre-Gingrich, but still sucky.

 

[LV426]

Which has been nothing but a disaster for the US. I don't care what a turd world tinpot or some Euroweenie says.

It's only been a disaster because you've taken a laissez-faire approach to policing predatory capitalism. You're the ones who don't want to constrain business and let the invisible hand do its thing. So I'm not sure why you think that approach is a disaster since it's the approach you wanted.

 

[montgomery]

I don't think you can co-operate with Russia, but I think you can with our traditional European allies. I do think we need to be more confrontational to Russian cyber aggression, and the sanctions were a key part of that. But Trump...you know...not enforcing sanctions and having the GOP defend Russia...

For me, any candidate that brags about their "moderate" bonafides is a non-starter candidate for me. I don't want moderates because the Overton window has been pushed so far to the right that "moderate" is just code for "Republican circa 1992"; pre-Gingrich, but still sucky.

If you talk as Russian cyber aggression from a POV of it being anything but two-sided, with the US being the biggest aggressor in that respect by far, then we have nothing more to talk about on that part of the issue. Fwiw, I regard your position as just too uninformed to debate on those conditions.

IMO: After Trump has disappeared then perhaps there can be a sensible discussion on Russia/Putin. The Dem position, rightful as it is on Trump, has skewed everything out of proportion on Russia/Putin.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

The American way, which is promoted by both major parties, can't work in a 21st. century world. Sharing the wealth between the world's countries on an international basis, and sharing the wealth in America are not in sync with the American way.

What does the American Way mean to you?

To start the discussion off: Trump is causing larger wealth inequality which is the exact opposite of what is needed in America. Promotion of that sort of ideology is an example of 'the American way'.

The american way means what it always has; wealth extraction, concentration and redistribution by whatever means necessary to infinity, the collapse of the empire, or the destruction of the ecosystem, whichever comes first. Once a society reaches and begins to surpass our current level of wealth inequality/inequity, history tells us societies break one of two ways, either toward uprising or toward a police state.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

If you talk as Russian cyber aggression from a POV of it being anything but two-sided, with the US being the biggest aggressor in that respect by far, then we have nothing more to talk about on that part of the issue. Fwiw, I regard your position as just too uninformed to debate on those conditions.

IMO: After Trump has disappeared then perhaps there can be a sensible discussion on Russia/Putin. The Dem position, rightful as it is on Trump, has skewed everything out of proportion on Russia/Putin.

The Dems funtion is that of a pressure relase valve when the ruling aristocracy cannot contain itself, they will not be an answer the people can count upon. FDR saved capitalism once. No one on the horizon to do that again, and the american people at the moment are an utterly subjugated lot awaiting a savior from the Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class to save them from his own tribe. Highly unlikely.

 

[LV426]

If you talk as Russian cyber aggression from a POV of it being anything but two-sided, with the US being the biggest aggressor in that respect by far, then we have nothing more to talk about on that part of the issue. Fwiw, I regard your position as just too uninformed to debate on those conditions.

Look, Putin's stated goal is to destroy western democracy. That's what he wants. That objective hasn't changed since when he was a KGB operative. He destroys it by going after our greatest weakness; our love of devices and the Internet. He's weaponized that against us and he did so because that's the only way he can wage war in the 21st century.

Remember, it was only 8 years ago that he was looking like he might be deposed by his own people because the sanctions were effective and working; but he galvanized them by picking a fight with Clinton, by enlisting Trump, and by employing his troll army to do what 70 years of Communism never could do; bring America to its knees. Putin is ex-KGB and runs his country like an Intelligence Operative. We have to confront him by going after his weakness; his economy. He says his greatest fear is to suffer the same fate as Ghaddafi; and we were very nearly there until his troll army was deployed. If we imposed the same type of crippling sanctions that brought Russia's economy to its knees before, we can get him deposed and he can enjoy the same fate as Ghaddafi.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Ahh yes, the "middle" class, which is NOT natural for any society.

Only democratic ones, but fuck that.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Look, Putin's stated goal is to destroy western democracy. That's what he wants. That objective hasn't changed since when he was a KGB operative. He destroys it by going after our greatest weakness; our love of devices and the Internet. He's weaponized that against us and he did so because that's the only way he can wage war in the 21st century.

Remember, it was only 8 years ago that he was looking like he might be deposed by his own people because the sanctions were effective and working; but he galvanized them by picking a fight with Clinton, by enlisting Trump, and by employing his troll army to do what 70 years of Communism never could do; bring America to its knees. Putin is ex-KGB and runs his country like an Intelligence Operative. We have to confront him by going after his weakness; his economy. He says his greatest fear is to suffer the same fate as Ghaddafi; and we were very nearly there until his troll army was deployed. If we imposed the same type of crippling sanctions that brought Russia's economy to its knees before, we can get him deposed and he can enjoy the same fate as Ghaddafi.

If Putin makes a run at getting away from the dollar we'll try to take him out too. The US will do itself in as all empires eventually do.

 

[LV426]

If Putin makes a run at getting away from the dollar we'll try to take him out too. The US will do itself in as all empires eventually do.

I think the best course of action would be to re-impose economic sanctions on Russia and bolster cyber defense in the US.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

I think the best course of action would be to re-impose economic sanctions on Russia and bolster cyber defense in the US.

We would do well to cease and desist with attempting to militarily occupy the planet and float an economic system on speculation and endless war, focusing upon real threats as opposed to political theatrical threats like a “caravan”.
But we won’t.

 

[TTQ64]

I see the American Way as American society pulling together to address problems that are too great for individuals or states to address by themselves.

Specifically, health care, education, and the environment.

PRISON, LAW AND JUSTICE REFORM should be at the top of the list.

Our inhumane country locks people up in concrete boxes for years for profit because of the color of their skin.

THAT should alarm every American citizen in this country.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

PRISON, LAW AND JUSTICE REFORM should be at the top of the list.

Our inhumane country locks people up in concrete boxes for years for profit because of the color of their skin.

THAT should alarm every American citizen in this country.

Don't be silly, that's basically america's jobs program.

 

[TTQ64]

Basically, the American way is about greedy capitalism that is flaunted on the people for the purpose of enriching the 1%, at the expense of the other 99%. And the American people have continued to buy into it. The Trump scam and Bernie's honest approach were to be the answers to the people who were finally saying that they had enough of it. But then we know what happened to that effort.

It's a huge danger facing the powers that be (the 1%) in the near future. The people are coming to understand that socially responsible capitalism is possible and it' not Socialism or Communism.

So let's see if the discussion can go anywhere from here?

Capitalism is an oppression tool used by the wealthy white to maintain control. Lots of white people believe in capitalism. ……...just saying.

 

[TTQ64]

Yes! You've got it and you seem to understand it. The American way was the promise and it really did work for a long time. But now the people and their rotten lots in life is now making it out to be an unsustainable lie.

When exactly did it work for Blacks? Be specific please.

 

[Boris The Animal]

PRISON, LAW AND JUSTICE REFORM should be at the top of the list.

Our inhumane country locks people up in concrete boxes for years for profit because of the color of their skin.

THAT should alarm every American citizen in this country.

What a crock of shit! People get locked up because they break the frigging LAW. What part of that are you incapable of comprehending?

 

[TTQ64]

I want more than anything for "socially responsible capitalism" to be possible.

I am not convinced it can exist.

Capitalism almost has to INSIST that each corporate entity do as much as possible to have "capital" be the benefactor of everything. And that almost requires that LABOR be obtained at the smallest expense possible.

Maybe it can be done by incorporating some socialism into the picture...with government competing with the corporations.

Capitalism = Slavery.