California’s economic situation!

[Legion]

To avoid answering to it.

Think that's the reason?

 

[cawacko]

They probably desire to do that now. So why can't they? Because there's not enough funding.

And thus, we've come full-circle in this circular argument of yours.

For whatever reason you're trying to obfuscate on the pension issue we face. Seems you agree with TTQ64 that it doesn't exist, is racist or both

 

[Callinectes]

Which didn't happen in CA...so raising taxes doesn't drive away the tax base, contrary to what Conservatives say. No?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/cal...ousing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html

https://www.investors.com/politics/...oing-the-once-unthinkable-leaving-california/

https://www.curbed.com/2018/2/27/17058006/california-housing-crisis-rent-migration-texas

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...thy-people-per-report-20180221-htmlstory.html

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/state/california/article201896909.html

Well, I got more, but it get's a bit redundant. And there are some caveats, like there ARE people moving to California(old and rich, and from other blue states). The trouble is, the state seems to be shedding it's middle class, and I just can't see a leap in good paying blue collar jobs.

Maybe it's all fake news though

 

[Legion]

I can't take anything for granted with you people.

"You people"?

So come be a teacher; the pay is shit, the benefits are shit, you gotta pay for your own supplies and health care, and Conservatives will blame you for anything. What a great job opportunity.

Nobody forces them to teach. BTW, what is the average starting salary for a California public school teacher?

 

[Legion]

Well, I got more, but it get's a bit redundant. And there are some caveats, like there ARE people moving to California (old and rich, and from other blue states).

Al Gore has a mansion there, doesn't he?

 

[LV426]

Why should public employees be held responsible for the decisions made by groups who represent them?

If the representatives are being deceived, it's not their fault. So many pension funds were deceived during the mid-2000's, and when the market collapsed, so did those pension funds, thus creating those liabilities. That's why no one was sounding alarm bells during the 2000's...pension funds were doing outstanding because of the narrow markets they were investing in. But then the market collapsed, revenues declined, and the pension funds lost value or collapsed altogether. Again, not the fault of the teachers, not the fault of the pension managers...the fault of the investment funds that were lying to investors. They were never held accountable for that, and instead you want to hold public employees accountable. Shameful.

If that's the case get rid of 'Pers and 'Sters and let workers all invest on their own.

Or we could hold investment funds to higher standards and hold them accountable when they fail. Why is that not an option? The banks all got to recoup their losses from the financial collapse, but the pension funds didn't. Is that fair? What if it was your pension?

nd politicians very much are involved in the amount of pension workers get. Go back and look what Gray Davis and the legislature did in 1999 at the peak of the dot com bubble for an example and how it's affecting us today

Firstly, the doctcom bubble burst didn't have the same effect on pension funds that the mortgage bubble did. And the dotcom bubble wasn't based on faulty credit ratings agencies inflating the value and diminishing the risk of the product they sold.

 

[TTQ64]

LOL, the option to not spend as much is now extreme as well as racist? Alright then.

You going to show us the lie in my previous statement?

You're entire post is a lie.

All you do is repeat right wing lies.

Racist white men don't like paying taxes to the government because the government employees Blacks.

They don't like educating Blacks nor do they like Unions.

They make up and spew lies and propaganda about all of the above to brainwash fools like you.

 

[TTQ64]

Sigh...

Politicians aren't selling pension investments...the investment funds are. If Investment Fund X is telling the pension managers that investing with them will result in X% of growth, but then X% of growth never happens, you are saying it's on the politicians (?) and not the investment funds for over-promising? But how could that be when it was the Investment Fund that made the over-promise to the pension manager? How is it the politician's fault (and subsequently, how is it a teacher's fault) if an investment fund was peddling a gallon of snake-oil?

Just curious...do you know if CALPERS had invested in funds in the mid-2000's that were also trading in all those risky subprimes and derivatives? And was CALPERS unwittingly investing in funds that held those securities? Because that's exactly what happened to almost all public pensions during the economic collapse. Investment funds were peddling miraculous growth in certain sectors and markets, and pitched those on to unsuspecting pension funds who were denied the true risk of the products in which they were investing.

So why should public employees bear the burden of consequences for that? Shouldn't the investment funds? Shouldn't the banks? They're the ones who made these promises, after all. Promises we now know were made in bad faith because they were concealing the true risk of their product.

All done when racist right wing republicans were in office.

 

[Sirthinksalot]

Reform it how? You guys don't have any ideas other than "charter schools" which are proven to produce no better outcomes than public schools. You complain about education spending, then complain about class size, then complain that the teachers are bad. So how are you supposed to attract talent to education when you're cutting pay and benefits? Seems self-defeating...almost intentionally so.

Reform it by doing away with defined benefit pensions, they're unsustainable long term. Make teachers kick in a reasonable amount toward their benefits, ya know just like everyone else. Get rid of the bullshit liberal policies that don't allow bad behaviour to be corrected. Don't force teachers to pay union dues, and stop the practice of making seniority more important than effectiveness in the classroom when layoffs happen. There are so many ways to reform education, but the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail to stop them, because the unions are fighting for themselves first and foremost, the teachers a distant second and not at all for the students.

I never said "teachers are bad" nor did I advocate "cutting pay". Actually, I'm in favor of merit based pay increases.

Well, considering who you are and what you said, I wasn't sure if you realized your argument was circular. I can't take anything for granted with you people.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

So come be a teacher; the pay is shit, the benefits are shit, you gotta pay for your own supplies and health care, and Conservatives will blame you for anything. What a great job opportunity.

No thanks, I'm quite happy in the career I have chosen.Teacher benefits are amazing moron. In many states, they can retire with a full defined benefit pension in their mid 50s then get an administrative job and collect a salary plus the pension, while building yet another pension. It's known as double dipping. Pay for their own health care? That statement is too stupid for words.

BTW - 401k's haven't really improved upon the returns from traditional pensions.

You have clearly missed the point here.

You answered your own question with you first.

California is governed by liberals dingus.

 

[TTQ64]

For whatever reason you're trying to obfuscate on the pension issue we face. Seems you agree with TTQ64 that it doesn't exist, is racist or both

What ever problems that do exist came from the racist right.

 

[cawacko]

If the representatives are being deceived, it's not their fault. So many pension funds were deceived during the mid-2000's, and when the market collapsed, so did those pension funds, thus creating those liabilities. That's why no one was sounding alarm bells during the 2000's...pension funds were doing outstanding because of the narrow markets they were investing in. But then the market collapsed, revenues declined, and the pension funds lost value or collapsed altogether. Again, not the fault of the teachers, not the fault of the pension managers...the fault of the investment funds that were lying to investors. They were never held accountable for that, and instead you want to hold public employees accountable. Shameful.



Or we could hold investment funds to higher standards and hold them accountable when they fail. Why is that not an option? The banks all got to recoup their losses from the financial collapse, but the pension funds didn't. Is that fair? What if it was your pension?




Firstly, the doctcom bubble burst didn't have the same effect on pension funds that the mortgage bubble did. And the dotcom bubble wasn't based on faulty credit ratings agencies inflating the value and diminishing the risk of the product they sold.

I'm assuming you're new and we haven't spoken or maybe you are just under a new name but your avatar says the South so I'm not sure if you fully understand how our pension system works and the role politicians play in workers expected rate of return.

 

[cawacko]

What ever problems that do exist came from the racist right.

The racist right over promised benefits to public workers? That's a new one

 

[TTQ64]

I'm assuming you're new and we haven't spoken or maybe you are just under a new name but your avatar says the South so I'm not sure if you fully understand how our pension system works and the role politicians play in workers expected rate of return.

LOL.......got yo ass toe up.

Now he don't understand...pfff.

 

[TTQ64]

The racist right over promised benefits to public workers? That's a new one

It's new because it's a lie.

 

[cawacko]

You're entire post is a lie.

All you do is repeat right wing lies.

Racist white men don't like paying taxes to the government because the government employees Blacks.

They don't like educating Blacks nor do they like Unions.

They make up and spew lies and propaganda about all of the above to brainwash fools like you.

So we don't have unfunded liability issues in California and our revenues don't largely come income tax and cap gains tax from the highest earners? Ok, where does our state tax revenue come from?

 

[Sirthinksalot]

LOL.......got yo ass toe up.

Now he don't understand...pfff.

You've got a toe up your ass? See a doctor.

 

[LV426]

So you're a religiously-intolerant bigot?

Proudly. I think all religion is stupid, and is just an easy answer for people too afraid or too ignorant to seek out answers to questions they don't know.

 

[LV426]

Cite the appropriate text that supports that contention.

BTW, did you just assume my gender, bigot?

It says they have to raise money to pay for it; but it doesn't say that it can't be paid for.

 

[LV426]

Prop 13 is a separate argument and I have no problem discussing it. But you refuse to acknowledge that copied that tweet without giving credit

Prop 13 is the housing crisis in CA. What happened in 2007-9 happened within that vacuum of Prop 13, which exacerbated the housing crisis' impact.

 

[LV426]

Probably?

Why wouldn't they want to pay teachers more?