Schumer Shutdown.....

Threedee said:
Many of the southern states did not even elect their first post-Reconstruction GOP governors until after 2000.
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Okay. And mayors or council members, I suppose.

BUT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT NATIONAL POLITICS...THE PRESIDENCY, IN PARTICULAR.

Take a look at the presidential voting patterns for the 11 states that made up the Confederacy...and you will see that from fairly soon after the Civil War...their EC votes just about always went to the Democratic candidate UNTIL 1964. Then it went almost exclusively to the Republican candidate (except for a few deviations for southern state candidates Carter and Clinton...and Strom Thurmond's Independent run).

You know it...I know it...any student of history knows it.

The impetus for the rise of the Republican Party in the south...was LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/shrugs.....sorry.....you're simply full of shit.......lib'ruls usually are.....
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I am not a liberal...so I will not speak for them. And I am not full of shit.

You ought really to grow up and not use that kind of thing in these discussion.

And if you do not realize that southern Democrats abandoned the Democratic Party for the Republican Party in 1964...you ought really to catch up on this nation's history.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
there is no evidence of that...
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There is evidence...it is plentiful...and it is both overwhelming and convincing.

Google "Democrats switch to Republicans in 1964." You'll get a quarter million hits.

...and it is irrational to believe it is so...
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No need to "believe" it...you can open your mind, read the material...and you will KNOW that it is so...as most well-read people already do.

...people simply do not choose to associate with those who do not think like they do.....
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My closest friends are all dedicated conservatives. They do not think like I do...and we all get along famously.
 
Frank Apisa said:
There is evidence...it is plentiful...and it is both overwhelming and convincing.

Google "Democrats switch to Republicans in 1964." You'll get a quarter million hits.
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there is evidence people switched......there is no evidence that they did so because they were racists......it is, in fact, counter-intuitive.....
 
Frank Apisa said:
You actually are asking me for the names of the southern Democrats who switched to the Republican Party after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act!

Actually?

Well...they number in the millions...and most had names like Billy Bob and Ida Mae. I'll work on a list...and get back to you in a couple of years.
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No, they don’t. This is just a bs talking point that Democrats espouse, in an attempt to explain their entrenched history of racist animus towards people of color. The history of the Republican Party is one of civil rights, and our voting, and our history, from the civil war to anti abortion positions, show it.

Democrats, cynically divide their constituents. They ply them with emotionally charged rhetoric, then pay their emotional ideals homage-with promises. One only need look across urban landscapes in this country to see the carnage of democratic promises, promises that were never kept, while democratic pigs made wallows of them.

Trump policies have helped everyone’s economic opportunities, and they will continue to so. It’s white liberals who want to inject race into everything, to rile up their racial bases to get out the vote. Your party creates its boogeyman, then up on their bully pulpits they ascend shouting their divisive, angry rants.
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
there is evidence people switched......there is no evidence that they did so because they were racists......it is, in fact, counter-intuitive.....
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Not counter intuitive except to someone who wants to think that the start of the massive migration of southern voters from lifelong affiliation with the Democratic Party to the Republican Party in 1964 (the year LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act and predicted his doing so would lose the south)...was just a coincidence.

Can't help you there, PP. It must be an ordeal for you!
 
J Craft said:
No, they don’t. This is just a bs talking point that Democrats espouse, in an attempt to explain their entrenched history of racist animus towards people of color. The history of the Republican Party is one of civil rights, and our voting, and our history, from the civil war to anti abortion positions, show it.

Democrats, cynically divide their constituents. They ply them with emotionally charged rhetoric, then pay their emotional ideals homage-with promises. One only need look across urban landscapes in this country to see the carnage of democratic promises, promises that were never kept, while democratic pigs made wallows of them.

Trump policies have helped everyone’s economic opportunities, and they will continue to so. It’s white liberals who want to inject race into everything, to rile up their racial bases to get out the vote. Your party creates its boogeyman, then up on their bully pulpits they ascend shouting their divisive, angry rants.
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If you want to accept that as the reality, J, fine with me. It is fiction, though...laughable fiction at that.

There is a reason why David Duke, for instance, thinks he has a wondrous home in the Republican Party...despite efforts of some Republicans to tell him he is not wanted. Duke recognizes the Republican Party as the best hope for the white supremacy for he advocates.

The KKK was founded to fight the efforts of the REPUBLICAN PARTY to manage reconstruction of the south...to fight the white mans battle against the REPUBLICAN PARTY. They were Democrats...later to be called Dixiecrat. And they bolted to the Republican Party when they realized the Democrats had taken up advocacy for civil rights and that the Republicans were getting weaker in that area.

Because of these racists in the Democratic Party...the Republican Party actually provided a greater percentage of votes for the Civil Rights Act than the Democrats. But the racists (both North and South) knew where their home was for the future...and that home is the Republican Party.

Great to see that I am correct when I suppose the Republican base can't even see the party for what it is.
 
Frank Apisa said:
If you want to accept that as the reality, J, fine with me. It is fiction, though...laughable fiction at that.

There is a reason why David Duke, for instance, thinks he has a wondrous home in the Republican Party...despite efforts of some Republicans to tell him he is not wanted. Duke recognizes the Republican Party as the best hope for the white supremacy for he advocates.

The KKK was founded to fight the efforts of the REPUBLICAN PARTY to manage reconstruction of the south...to fight the white mans battle against the REPUBLICAN PARTY. They were Democrats...later to be called Dixiecrat. And they bolted to the Republican Party when they realized the Democrats had taken up advocacy for civil rights and that the Republicans were getting weaker in that area.

Because of these racists in the Democratic Party...the Republican Party actually provided a greater percentage of votes for the Civil Rights Act than the Democrats. But the racists (both North and South) knew where their home was for the future...and that home is the Republican Party.

Great to see that I am correct when I suppose the Republican base can't even see the party for what it is.
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Its not my fiction, it’s the actual historical record. That a few bad apples vote a certain way, does not a pie make. I’ve heard the democratic talking points, but, again, history does not bare them out.

Excuse making and double speak, does not change the political history of Democrats. There isn’t racist policy making that has ever attached itself to the history of the Republican Party- no matter how much you insist it does. The same, cannot be said of the party you attempt to defend.
 
J Craft said:
Its not my fiction, it’s the actual historical record. That a few bad apples vote a certain way, does not a pie make. I’ve heard the democratic talking points, but, again, history does not bare them out.

Excuse making and double speak, does not change the political history of Democrats. There isn’t racist policy making that has ever attached itself to the history of the Republican Party- no matter how much you insist it does. The same, cannot be said of the party you attempt to defend.
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Craft, I have never said that racist policy making has ever attached itself to the Republican Party.

I have said that after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act...a move he predicted would lose the South for the Democratic Party...the Electoral Votes of the southern states suddenly shifted from the Democratic candidates for President to the Republican candidates.

You can look it up. IT IS HISTORICAL FACT...in the historical record you mentioned.

I also have said that racists such as David Duke, for instance, seem to feel a LOT more comfortable with the Republican Party than with the Democratic Party.

I'll add: I know MANY Republicans...and many (most) are not racist. But EVERY avowed racist I know (I know a few and read about a few more) strongly support the Republican Party over the Democratic Party.

If what you are alleging were true...all of this would be reversed.

If you want to ignore those facts and pretend your alternate "facts" are correct...fine with me. You are in the correct political party for that sort of thing these days.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Craft, I have never said that racist policy making has ever attached itself to the Republican Party.

I have said that after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act...a move he predicted would lose the South for the Democratic Party...the Electoral Votes of the southern states suddenly shifted from the Democratic candidates for President to the Republican candidates.

You can look it up. IT IS HISTORICAL FACT...in the historical record you mentioned.

I also have said that racists such as David Duke, for instance, seem to feel a LOT more comfortable with the Republican Party than with the Democratic Party.

I'll add: I know MANY Republicans...and many (most) are not racist. But EVERY avowed racist I know (I know a few and read about a few more) strongly support the Republican Party over the Democratic Party.

If what you are alleging were true...all of this would be reversed.

If you want to ignore those facts and pretend your alternate "facts" are correct...fine with me. You are in the correct political party for that sort of thing these days.
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Im not the one presiding rhetoric are facts- you are. Racists have different pigments. I find white liberal cynicism about black Americans to be a backhanded type of racial bigotry. As you noted, there is no history of racist policy by republicans, but that isn’t true of the Democrats political history.

The political, and the actual landscape in our country, is littered with the damage of racial democratic politicking. From bad and misguided policies, to hate filled rhetoric- it is the party of LBJ that has ruined families, and devastated urban centers.
 
Frank Apisa said:
There is evidence...it is plentiful...and it is both overwhelming and convincing.

Google "Democrats switch to Republicans in 1964." You'll get a quarter million hits.



No need to "believe" it...you can open your mind, read the material...and you will KNOW that it is so...as most well-read people already do.



My closest friends are all dedicated conservatives. They do not think like I do...and we all get along famously.
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The Republicans carried four southern states in 1964.
 
Frank Apisa said:
NO...why would I? I am totally happy being an Independent and an independent. I need no party affiliation.
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because your argument against saying people join political parties with people who think like them was to say you have friends that don't think like you.......I was just wondering if you thought that argument worked about political parties as well.......apparently, even though you raised the argument you don't believe it either......
 
Frank Apisa said:
There is a reason why David Duke, for instance, thinks he has a wondrous home in the Republican Party...
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do you think so even though Republicans didn't vote for him?.....

The KKK was founded to fight the efforts of the REPUBLICAN PARTY to manage reconstruction of the south..
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wasn't that the point?.....

And they bolted to the Republican Party
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no......it was the folks who didn't LIKE the racist demmycrats of 1964 that bolted to the Republicans.......

Great to see that I am correct when I suppose the Republican base can't even see the party for what it is.
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we certainly don't see it for what YOU think it is......
 
J Craft said:
Im not the one presiding rhetoric are facts- you are. Racists have different pigments. I find white liberal cynicism about black Americans to be a backhanded type of racial bigotry. As you noted, there is no history of racist policy by republicans, but that isn’t true of the Democrats political history.

The political, and the actual landscape in our country, is littered with the damage of racial democratic politicking. From bad and misguided policies, to hate filled rhetoric- it is the party of LBJ that has ruined families, and devastated urban centers.
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If you want to suppose that people like David Duke abhor the Democratic Party and support the Republican Party because the Democratic Party is a racist party...and the Republican Party is not...

...be my guest.

I am constantly amazed at the nonsense American conservatives are willing to swallow, so your position certainly does not astonish me.

I hope at some point we find an area where we are in agreement. We most assuredly are not on this issue.
 
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