The Meaning of Christmas...

sear said:
Excellent.
It's not a comprehensive list. They're questions. Can a question be wrong?

We've always had that. Epicurus has never denied it.
You citing it changes nothing. You citing it refutes nothing.
It's called free-will. Thus my tronport quotation in #35.

But the point is, the tradition is that god is omnipotent and OMNISCIENT.

So whether individual humans make their own decisions independently or not is immaterial.
An omniscient, omnipotent god would know what they would be either way.

And as he is allegedly the creator, god would have created the cosmos to work out this way anyway. So you tell me that's not predestination.

How could an omniscient, omnipotent god create a universe with individuals with ostensibly free will; yet from the start god knew exactly what decisions each would make, in every case?

The ability to choose evil which god created in each of us; knowing in advance each decision we make.

"Refutation"? You have refuted nothing. You've quibbled, changing nothing.

I'd eagerly celebrate a refutation, and intend to do so with gargantuan fanfare, as soon as I find the first one. I have not found any yet.
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no attempt to support Epicurus?......a concession then....any other foolish ideas you want demolished?....

The ability to choose evil which god created in each of us; knowing in advance each decision we make.
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the ability was created, not the evil......he knew what decision we would make, but didn't whisper that knowledge in our ear.....thus we had no choice except to freely choose.....sorry your and Epicurus' argument failed......but of course you've always known it had........
 
Jarod said:
LOVE! Love! Love!

Christ came to Earth to deliver a simple message, Humans are loved directly and unconditionally by God.

What a great gift to know that God simply loves us, we are "pre-forgiven" for anything we do and have ever done, what an amazing thing to consider. Everyone is worthy of Gods love and there is NOTHING we can do to extinguish it. We can chose not to believe it, we can chose not to accept it, but turn around and there is is and it is absolute. Can you feel it? I can, at night when I go to sleep I do so with a smile on my face because I know I am loved. You can feel it also, just learn that its true and accept it.

Nobody have to prove themselves to God, you don't have to work hard, you don't have to have pure thoughts, you don't have to do good deeds, you are simply LOVED. You can be a bum, a Wall street banker, a Muslim or a Buddhist, you are LOVED by God. You can be a murderer or a priest, you are LOVED the same by GOD, and favored on Earth and in Heaven. All humans rejoice this Christmas as we celebrate the message Christ brought to us, the message of LOVE from God for ALL! Take a deep breath, no matter who you are, and feel the warm love wash over you and know there is peace within you here on Earth.
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You aren't a Calvinist or God is a meany.
 
"no attempt to support Epicurus?......a concession then....any other foolish ideas you want demolished?...." PP #82
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I'm chomping at the bit to expose the folly of any pseudo-refutation of Epicurus.
But so far there hasn't been one. Just feeble palaver presented with grandiose pretense.
"the ability was created, not the evil..." PP #82
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What do you want from me?!
The self-proclaimed authorities on it assert that god created the cosmos (in 6 days!).

If god created the cosmos, you would have me believe god created good, but not evil?
Then why call god omnipotent?
You think an omnipotent creator deity would create a perfect cosmos without evil, and then allow some interloper in to spoil it all?! That brings us directly back to Epicurus.
"..he knew what decision we would make, but didn't whisper that knowledge in our ear..." PP
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That's irrelevant.
I never asserted ostensibly divinely provided freedom of choice is attended by a preview. No whispering necessary.
"..thus we had no choice except to freely choose...." PP
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And in so doing, do as we were created by god to do, AND to do WHAT god knew from the beginning what we would do.
"....sorry your and Epicurus' argument failed......but of course you've always known it had......" PP
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You're not merely confused. You're profoundly delusional.

My invitation to refute Epicurus stands. No one posting here has done so yet.
 
Jarod said:
And you are LOVED. You don't have to ask for forgiveness, it is granted before you even thought of the sin.
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Happy Christmas, mate...and to all!

“The world is kept alive only by heretics: the heretic Christ, the heretic Copernicus, the heretic Tolstoy. Our symbol of faith is heresy.”
― Yevgeny Zamyatin


“What has for centuries raised man above the beast is not the cudgel but an inward music: the irresistible power of unarmed truth, the powerful attraction of its example. It has always been assumed that the most important things in the Gospels are the ethical maxims and commandments. But for me the most important thing is that Christ speaks in parables taken from life, that He explains the truth in terms of everyday reality. The idea that underlies this is that communion between mortals is immortal, and that the whole of life is symbolic because it is meaningful.”
― Boris Paternak


“Christ's teaching, which came to be known to men, not by means of violence and the sword, they say, but by means of non-resistance to evil, gentleness, meekness, and peaceableness, can only be diffused through the world by the example of peace, harmony, and love among its followers.”
― Leo Tolstoy
 
sear said:
I'm chomping at the bit to expose the folly of any pseudo-refutation of Epicurus.
But so far there hasn't been one. Just feeble palaver presented with grandiose pretense.

What do you want from me?!
The self-proclaimed authorities on it assert that god created the cosmos (in 6 days!).

If god created the cosmos, you would have me believe god created good, but not evil?
Then why call god omnipotent?
You think an omnipotent creator deity would create a perfect cosmos without evil, and then allow some interloper in to spoil it all?! That brings us directly back to Epicurus.

That's irrelevant.
I never asserted ostensibly divinely provided freedom of choice is attended by a preview. No whispering necessary.

And in so doing, do as we were created by god to do, AND to do WHAT god knew from the beginning what we would do.

You're not merely confused. You're profoundly delusional.

My invitation to refute Epicurus stands. No one posting here has done so yet.
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"good" cannot exist without "evil" also existing. That's basic Taoism ( ying/yang)

yink-yang.jpg
 
evince said:
but conservatives OWN god

just ask them

God hates you because they say so

I once had one tell me he owned the words of Jesus and I could not post them
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One of the cons here just recently said lesbians are going to hell. Many religious cons think they have full authority of deciding what the sin is and how it will be punished. Sad!
 
sear said:
I'm chomping at the bit to expose the folly of any pseudo-refutation of Epicurus.
But so far there hasn't been one. Just feeble palaver presented with grandiose pretense.
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you sound a lot like Zappy.....you avoid argument by pretending it isn't happening......unfortunately, that just makes you look like an idiot.....

What do you want from me?!
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I expect a concession.....you shouldn't have chosen the losing side of the argument.....but at least it was your freely made choice....

That's irrelevant
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obviously not.....his foreknowledge cannot drive your choices if you remain ignorant of it.....

And in so doing, do as we were created by god to do, AND to do WHAT god knew from the beginning what we would do.
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did God create you to lose this argument?....
 
Bigdog said:

This from a Hate Whitey, Hate Christians, Hate masculinity, confine Blacks to ghettos, and replace Black fathers with gov't, ... socialist authoritarian like you, racist pig living in an all white liberal gated community.

:palm:
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Here you are, saying all the things Jesus would never say.
 
Cypress said:
Happy Christmas, mate...and to all!

“The world is kept alive only by heretics: the heretic Christ, the heretic Copernicus, the heretic Tolstoy. Our symbol of faith is heresy.”
― Yevgeny Zamyatin


“What has for centuries raised man above the beast is not the cudgel but an inward music: the irresistible power of unarmed truth, the powerful attraction of its example. It has always been assumed that the most important things in the Gospels are the ethical maxims and commandments. But for me the most important thing is that Christ speaks in parables taken from life, that He explains the truth in terms of everyday reality. The idea that underlies this is that communion between mortals is immortal, and that the whole of life is symbolic because it is meaningful.”
― Boris Paternak


“Christ's teaching, which came to be known to men, not by means of violence and the sword, they say, but by means of non-resistance to evil, gentleness, meekness, and peaceableness, can only be diffused through the world by the example of peace, harmony, and love among its followers.”
― Leo Tolstoy
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And also to you, Cypress!
 
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