Abortion thought experiment

Covfefe said:
Being free from religion doesn’t change a darn thing about our nation or the Constitution. A few of our Founders were free from religion.

You need to study history before you make such statements, there were colonies that forced their religion on citizens, that is why the Founders wrote the 1st Amendment
https://www.facinghistory.org/nobigotry/religion-colonial-america-trends-regulations-and-beliefsj
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If I'm wrong, point it out....

Religion has never, in our country's history, been forced on anyone by government...

That don't mean that some individuals haven't ever tried to do unconstitutional things....
 
Covfefe said:
Yes, I know all of this, but thanks anyway, that’s another confusing thing, God is beyond comprehension, yet religion claims your eternal life depends upon it, seems God would make it a little less confusing if your eternal life was at stake, you have to believe so much on faith and get so much of it from other sources rather than directly from God. He also picks some very deeply flawed messengers, in my opinion and through my studies.
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Yup, he picks the flawed such as myself and others, always has. That's so none of us can brag about anything as some kid of super, wonderful, smart and superior human beings. Instead all the glory and thanks go to our loving Father who rescued us from our sin and he alone mercifully gave us life forever with Christ in Heaven where FINALLY there will be no more wars, fear, hate, tears or sin. Only peace and life forever with our Lord.
It's only confusing because we try to figure it all out on our own using our natural minds. In the flesh we say, "I'll believe it when I see it". But, by faith we say, " I'll see it when we believe it".
Pray and ask God to give you the faith to believe his Word and your understanding will open up. The natural mind does not comprehend the things of God. But, when we are born again of the Spirit our minds are renewed and we are given the wisdom we need to comprehend his plan, his ways and his will.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 2:14

Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast in His presence.

It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1Cor 1:26-31
 
NOVA said:
Yeah....I'm curious....

the only one I'm familiar with is "The constitutional text : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..

The pertinent words being establishment and free exercise....
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and its means NO LAWS designed by ONE religion


NONE

even if like back then MOST of the people believed basically the same religion.

They saw what it did to the british government


they KNEW a speration was needed
 
Micawber said:
Not by the government so much, but has been socially forced on people to the present day.
I am comfortable in almost any company stating I am atheist under my real name if asked.
In many places in the US today, you are shunned for that, perhaps hurt in business, etc.

Go out enjoy that Christian privilege! I'm oppressed.
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Thats what makes us free men and women....personally I shun all kinds of assholes....that not only my right, its yours too....
 
Stretch said:
Yup, he picks the flawed such as myself and others, always has. That's so none of us can brag about anything as some kid of super, wonderful, smart and superior human beings. Instead all the glory and thanks go to our loving Father who rescued us from our sin and he alone mercifully gave us life forever with Christ in Heaven where FINALLY there will be no more wars, fear, hate, tears or sin. Only peace and life forever with our Lord.
It's only confusing because we try to figure it all out on our own using our natural minds. In the flesh we say, "I'll believe it when I see it". But, by faith we say, " I'll see it when we believe it".
Pray and ask God to give you the faith to believe his Word and your understanding will open up. The natural mind does not comprehend the things of God. But, when we are born again of the Spirit our minds are renewed and we are given the wisdom we need to comprehend his plan, his ways and his will.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 2:14

Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast in His presence.

It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1Cor 1:26-31
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To live in America you need to understand the religions of others.


they will clash with yours


Just like yours clashes with theirs.


If you want to talk politics you have to recognise you are but one of the many belief systems in this population.


Your religion doesnt get to make all the laws


Its a democracy
 
Stretch said:
Same thing really. We have the freedom to practice or not practice our faith. Either way, the government can not force any person to belong to any state dictated particular religion.
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and NO law shall be made to promote any one religion.


that means you dont get to just force everyone to follow ANY laws of your religion



history has seen that many times and watched it fail
 
evince said:
and its means NO LAWS designed by ONE religion


NONE

even if like back then MOST of the people believed basically the same religion.

They saw what it did to the british government


they KNEW a speration was needed
Click to expand...

Then you need to take a reading comprehension class.....it means exactly what it says, nothing more, nothing less....

What would you consider a law 'designed' by one religion.....Sharia Law perhaps....or maybe 'no school on Sunday'.????
 
Stretch said:
Yup, he picks the flawed such as myself and others, always has. That's so none of us can brag about anything as some kid of super, wonderful, smart and superior human beings. Instead all the glory and thanks go to our loving Father who rescued us from our sin and he alone mercifully gave us life forever with Christ in Heaven where FINALLY there will be no more wars, fear, hate, tears or sin. Only peace and life forever with our Lord.
It's only confusing because we try to figure it all out on our own using our natural minds. In the flesh we say, "I'll believe it when I see it". But, by faith we say, " I'll see it when we believe it".
Pray and ask God to give you the faith to believe his Word and your understanding will open up. The natural mind does not comprehend the things of God. But, when we are born again of the Spirit our minds are renewed and we are given the wisdom we need to comprehend his plan, his ways and his will.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 2:14

Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast in His presence.

It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1Cor 1:26-31
Click to expand...
The “righteous” always think people who don’t believe in their religion haven’t studied, prayed, begged or at one time were part of the “faithful”. They want to desperately think we haven’t studied or don’t understand. It makes them feel better I guess and superior to the “unbelievers” because they supposedly understand, yet, much of what they believe isnt provable and just be taken on faith alone.
 
evince said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#Jefferson_and_the_Bill_of_Rights



Jefferson and the Bill of Rights[edit]
Main articles: Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause


Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, whose letter to the Danbury Baptists Association is often quoted in debates regarding the separation of church and state.
In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:


Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[25]


Jefferson was describing to the Baptists that the United States Bill of Rights prevents the establishment of a national church, and in so doing they did not have to fear government interference in their right to expressions of religious conscience. The Bill of Rights was one of the earliest examples in the world of complete religious freedom (adopted in 1791, only preceded by the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen in 1789).[original
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post 196
 
NOVA said:
Then you need to take a reading comprehension class.....it means exactly what it says, nothing more, nothing less....

What would you consider a law 'designed' by one religion.....Sharia Law perhaps....or maybe 'no school on Sunday'.????
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hmmmm
you or the people who wrote it



boy thats a tuff one


THE FOUNDERS are my pick
 
legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'


THAT IS the definition of the so called wall of separation between church and state...
 
Covfefe said:
How sad you feel you are a worthless sinner, another reason I reject religion.
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Yeah, I know. The fact is we can not save ourselves from that baggage of sin we all carry.
You don't have understanding. In the natural we are sinners, all of us. God offers us the free gift of salvation through faith in his Son, Jesus Christ. He bore all our sins on the cross and paid the price in full. All we have to do accept the gift. THIS is the Gospel...the Good News. I have nothing to boast of in myself. Instead I boast in Christ who saved me while I was still in my sin. This is great news. The pressure is off. Knowing that I don't (and can't) work my butt off to get in God's good graces is fantastic news. I trust in Christ alone to finish the work that HE started in me! WOW!!! What a gift! If a person hands me a gift, I receive it and say, "thank-you!" How much more do I give thanks now to God himself for providing me with this free gift of life that I didn't earn, deserve or work for!

Have you ever had anybody ever forgive you of a debt you may have owed? A credit card company, a friend, a business partner? I have and what a relief that was, such a load lifted. Well this joy and freedom is like THAT only multiplied by billions! :awesome:

For I am confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:6
 
NOVA said:
legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,'


THAT IS the definition of the so called wall of separation between church and state...
Click to expand...

so called


idiot that is what jefferson called it
 
evince said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#Jefferson_and_the_Bill_of_Rights



Jefferson and the Bill of Rights[edit]
Main articles: Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause


Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, whose letter to the Danbury Baptists Association is often quoted in debates regarding the separation of church and state.
In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:


Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[25]


Jefferson was describing to the Baptists that the United States Bill of Rights prevents the establishment of a national church, and in so doing they did not have to fear government interference in their right to expressions of religious conscience. The Bill of Rights was one of the earliest examples in the world of complete religious freedom (adopted in 1791, only preceded by the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen in 1789).[original
Click to expand...

'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'
EXACTLY :good4u:
 
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