Too careless w/ this magnificent thing we created

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America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
 
PPL in Kentucky are not for losing there ObamaCare.... The blind guy in the senate is walking on egg shells as he knows those hillbillies will toss his ass to the DC curb/lower end of the swamp if he cuts off their freeBee's...
 
Thing1 said:
America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
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Whatever, :D
 
Thing1 said:
America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
Click to expand...

Thing:

Do not despair. America is not dependent on transitory politicians or ideological trends. Our leadership on the world stage is assured by our stability and unwavering commitment to Liberty and Free Expression. Your worry of an "America First mentality" is understandable given the long-standing scorn for same by the Liberal "thinking" that dominates the national Media but accepting the by now almost universal Media assumption that joining every other nation by putting our own interests first and foremost equals "...a narrow 'America First' mentality" would be a great mistake. Remember, no one yearning for an opportunity for a better life is flooding into China or Russia or Cuba (despite Obamas final failed "outreach")...
 
Thing1 said:
America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
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America is never going to stop being a world superpower just because liberals or europeans says so. Just look at how the USSR went down after 89 and look how now the darling press says how powerful Putin is.

IMO, this is largely a perception issue. The leftist press, the vast majority of press, slams Trump and in turn the US any chance they get. Not that Trump is doing many favors for himself, but the press hounds Republican presidents. Look at Bush, then Obama and now Trump. With Obama, he could basically do no wrong. That drives common world opinion, however, it does not drive the reality.

The US is still the number one superpower. Trump can't ruin that, he isn't that powerful. In fact, he is quite a weak President for a variety of reasons, one being he doesn't even have the support of his party. I'm not sure that half the Senators or Congressman support him. He has alienated himself by being an insulting blowhard.

America will continue to be great.
 
nji098 said:
Thing:

Do not despair. America is not dependent on transitory politicians or ideological trends. Our leadership on the world stage is assured by our stability and unwavering commitment to Liberty and Free Expression. Your worry of an "America First mentality" is understandable given the long-standing scorn for same by the Liberal "thinking" that dominates the national Media but accepting the by now almost universal Media assumption that joining every other nation by putting our own interests first and foremost equals "...a narrow 'America First' mentality" would be a great mistake. Remember, no one yearning for an opportunity for a better life is flooding into China or Russia or Cuba (despite Obamas final failed "outreach")...
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I appreciate the thoughtful response. I think "America First" is one of those things that just naturally sounds good, and on its surface, is a hard thing to question or dispute as a priority. It's just the execution of it that can basically end up having the reverse effect; if we abandon our leadership position in the world, wholly or partially, it leaves the world open to other powers & influences - which can end up hurting us in ways that we'd need a few think tanks to even begin to calculate.

"Globalism" has become a sort of dirty word, but we need the world, and they need us. I think the way Trump is approaching "America First" is misguided and driven more by emotions like xenophobia than by logic and long-term planning.

But we'll see. As I said, I hope I'm just overreacting.
 
Yaya said:
America is never going to stop being a world superpower just because liberals or europeans says so. Just look at how the USSR went down after 89 and look how now the darling press says how powerful Putin is.

IMO, this is largely a perception issue. The leftist press, the vast majority of press, slams Trump and in turn the US any chance they get. Not that Trump is doing many favors for himself, but the press hounds Republican presidents. Look at Bush, then Obama and now Trump. With Obama, he could basically do no wrong. That drives common world opinion, however, it does not drive the reality.

The US is still the number one superpower. Trump can't ruin that, he isn't that powerful. In fact, he is quite a weak President for a variety of reasons, one being he doesn't even have the support of his party. I'm not sure that half the Senators or Congressman support him. He has alienated himself by being an insulting blowhard.

America will continue to be great.
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I disagree that it can be distilled down to media-driven perception. The MSM may have favored Obama - though I disagree w/ the characterization that he could "do no wrong" in their eyes - but he was slammed relentlessly by talk radio and other alternative media, which arguably has a larger audience.

I think Trump himself is driving most of the world opinion about him & his admin. He is careless w/ his rhetoric and has very quickly changed the perception of America around the globe in a pretty dramatic way. Other world leaders have come right out & basically said it - they can no longer look to America for the leadership that we have provided for decades.
 
The USA has good sides and bad, and they're not always what the Americans think they are. I think they are, on the whole, far too conformist and lacking in intellectual freedom, but they do have a wonderful confidence and, on the whole, surprisingly decent manners. The crazy notion that the rich should rule is insane, however, and so is the lack of proper health care and gun control, which they could easily afford. As an historically-minded person I quite like the extreme traditionalism they go in for however.
 
iolo said:
The USA has good sides and bad, and they're not always what the Americans think they are. I think they are, on the whole, far too conformist and lacking in intellectual freedom, but they do have a wonderful confidence and, on the whole, surprisingly decent manners. The crazy notion that the rich should rule is insane, however, and so is the lack of proper health care and gun control, which they could easily afford. As an historically-minded person I quite like the extreme traditionalism they go in for however.
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Bloody hell, looks like the real Iolo has been abducted by aliens!

Sent from iPhone 25S Turbo
 
Thing1 said:
America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
Click to expand...

There has always been two political sides, based on economic theory. Your side believes there is a finite source of wealth, so in order for there to be rich there must be many poor. Thus your side supported (in the 18th century) monarchies, slavery as an institution (until the 19th century), and redistribution of wealth (since the 20th century).

My side believes that since wealth can be created, there is an infinite supply. Thus we supported (as stated in the Declaration of Independence) God-given rights to pursue happiness, free markets, capitalism, and the right to defend one's own property.

Since there has always been this dichotomy, there will always be a battle between the two sides. Your side has been very good at long term planning: taking over the media, the schools, and progressively converting the population into believing your theories. It worked well until The Obama pushed the agenda too hard and woke up my side.

Hence we have Trump, who we hired to burn it all down and start over.
 
"America First" is the very thing that the rest of the World depends on.
Without a prosperous innovative America in a leadership role the world may very well fall into relying on a physical power Government with much less human compassion. Someone or something will fill the void left by the absence of American leadership.

And yes with that leadership comes a certain bravado, our military swagger unfortunately is the only thing between a Hitler personality violently taking over one region at a time. Left unfettered ISIS may already own Iraq, Syria, Libya, Turkey, Iran, Lebanon, and beyond. What would be next.
Trumps "America first" is certainly not going to abandoned that fight that should be obvious.

If America truly walked away from that fight and isolated ourselves in very short order most of the now civilized world outside of our borders would be in a world of hurt.
Who do you want to lead the fight against Radical Islam? Russia? Great Britain? Germany? Saudi Arabia? lololol

Trumps "America First" is obvious to any sane person not blinded by partisan hatred to mean we have been taken advantage of in many areas both militarily and financially, our good will has been exposed as a weakness.

The media has way too much power and for no good reason has chosen to attack any and everything any conservative, not just the president but anything any conservative has to offer.
Liberals should be thankful that there is just enough barely just enough of us to hold the fort down while they hopefully come to their senses and realize we just want this "America first" thing to bring us back to the sustained prosperity that is slowly slipping out of our lives through a series of really stupid deals, wars, and propaganda.
 
Thing1 said:
America has been such a huge force of good in the world, despite our flaws. Really, since WWII, we set the tone, and simply made a lot of lives better. Millions of lives.

And at home, we've enjoyed a pretty prolonged period of prosperity - a level of success and well-being that most here now take for granted. But it's incomprehensibly unique in world history. I doubt a lot of people here realize how good we have had it compared to the generations that preceded us and certainly our more distant ancestors.

Really, what an achievement. And yet we had an election that pitted 2 truly awful candidates against each other, with some daring to characterize one of them - amid all of this unprecedented prosperity - as some sort of "last hope." It bothers me that people celebrated the idea of tearing everything down & seeing our institutions discredited and dismantled. I don't think they understand what could be waiting beyond that.

And now here we are - shrinking from our leadership role in the world in favor of a narrow "America First" mentality. Leaving a vacuum that could be filled by a Russia or a China, or maybe no one. Who knows where that leads - what kind of world will result. It won't be the one we've all become used to, and which was pretty damned good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have a good feeling right now. Definitely seems like one of those "don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" situations in the making.
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Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You have stood by while the left has mounted an assault on all that made this country great and now you sit here wringing your hands?

FUCK YOU!
 
Getin the ring said:
"America First" is the very thing that the rest of the World depends on.
Without a prosperous innovative America in a leadership role the world may very well fall into relying on a physical power Government with much less human compassion. Someone or something will fill the void left by the absence of American leadership.

And yes with that leadership comes a certain bravado, our military swagger unfortunately is the only thing between a Hitler personality violently taking over one region at a time. Left unfettered ISIS may already own Iraq, Syria, Libya, Turkey, Iran, Lebanon, and beyond. What would be next.
Trumps "America first" is certainly not going to abandoned that fight that should be obvious.

If America truly walked away from that fight and isolated ourselves in very short order most of the now civilized world outside of our borders would be in a world of hurt.
Who do you want to lead the fight against Radical Islam? Russia? Great Britain? Germany? Saudi Arabia? lololol

Trumps "America First" is obvious to any sane person not blinded by partisan hatred to mean we have been taken advantage of in many areas both militarily and financially, our good will has been exposed as a weakness.

The media has way too much power and for no good reason has chosen to attack any and everything any conservative, not just the president but anything any conservative has to offer.
Liberals should be thankful that there is just enough barely just enough of us to hold the fort down while they hopefully come to their senses and realize we just want this "America first" thing to bring us back to the sustained prosperity that is slowly slipping out of our lives through a series of really stupid deals, wars, and propaganda.
Click to expand...

Like all imperial bullies, the US used to make for stability except when it was fighting colonial wars. Now, like similar mediaeval monarchies, it has a totally inadequate successor, and is producing only footling chaos.
 
asking Europe to pay for it's own defense is hardly abandoning.

Not talking to Putin like Obama did, because he couldn't deal/get along with him got him into sole control of Syria and back in Egypt and the middle east.

You have to deal with the world as it is. realpolitik.
 
anatta said:
asking Europe to pay for it's own defense is hardly abandoning.

Not talking to Putin like Obama did, because he couldn't deal/get along with him got him into sole control of Syria and back in Egypt and the middle east.

You have to deal with the world as it is. realpolitik.
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'Own defense' could use some analysis. Here I am at home, and no-one is threatening me except Mrs May and her nutters. What have the Yanks to do with it?
 
iolo said:
'Own defense' could use some analysis. Here I am at home, and no-one is threatening me except Mrs May and her nutters. What have the Yanks to do with it?
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There you go again Taffy, Wales is a taker not a giver. So you don't contribute anything to NATO or much else come to that. There is a near £15 billion deficit between tax receipts and public spending or 24% of GDP. Of course when it comes to whinging, you boyos are in a league of your own.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/15bn-tax-deficit-heart-wales-11131738
 
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Right said:
There has always been two political sides, based on economic theory. Your side believes there is a finite source of wealth, so in order for there to be rich there must be many poor. Thus your side supported (in the 18th century) monarchies, slavery as an institution (until the 19th century), and redistribution of wealth (since the 20th century).

My side believes that since wealth can be created, there is an infinite supply. Thus we supported (as stated in the Declaration of Independence) God-given rights to pursue happiness, free markets, capitalism, and the right to defend one's own property.

Since there has always been this dichotomy, there will always be a battle between the two sides. Your side has been very good at long term planning: taking over the media, the schools, and progressively converting the population into believing your theories. It worked well until The Obama pushed the agenda too hard and woke up my side.

Hence we have Trump, who we hired to burn it all down and start over.
Click to expand...

Um, what? You realize if wealth were infinite it would be meaningless, right?
 
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