Thorium, yay or nay?

You just cannot refrain from spouting bollocks, please read and learn for once!!

Much Less Nuclear Waste

"LWR uses ~2% of the fuel, because fission products trapped in the fuel pellets block fission, and the pellets get damaged by radiation and pressure. The rest of the uranium is considered “waste”, to be stored for over 100,000 years. Well, that is waste only if we only use LWR, or other solid fueled types of nuclear reactors. There are several types of nuclear reactor possible, that can fission All that uranium, plutonium, and other transuranic elements. (God didn’t make useful uranium and defective uranium; it’s the reactor design that only uses ~2% of the fuel.)

MSR has molten fuel, no fuel pellets, no fuel rods. Some of the fission products, that block fission the most, are gasses — in LWR they are carefully trapped in the pellets, in MSR they bubble right out of the fuel salt and are collected. Most other fission products are easily chemically separated from the circulating fuel salt. Most MSR designs, including LFTR, use over 99% of the fuel.

A LFTR’s waste is safe (radiation levels below the original uranium ore and below background radiation) within 350 years. To produce 1 gigawatt electricity for a year, takes 800kg to 1000kg of thorium or uranium/plutonium waste. 83% of the fission byproducts are safe in 10 years, 17% (135 kg, 300 lbs) within 350 years, no uranium or plutonium left as waste. After that, radiation is below background radiation levels. (Compare to 250,000kg uranium to make 35,000kg enriched uranium for a solid-fueled reactor like LWR, for that same gigawatt-year electricity, all needing storage for 100,000+ years.)

No uranium, plutonium, or other long-term elements in LFTR waste, since they are simply left in the reactor until they either fission or decay to short-term waste. (Standard industrial processing inefficiency of 0.1% leaves 1kg uranium; we can do better than that, but still much less per gigawatt-year than the 5500 kg uranium left from an average USA coal plant!)

Most of the fission products are valuable for industrial use. After a few years, radioactive decay brings them below background radiation, ready for use."

http://liquidfluoridethoriumreactor.glerner.com/




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[FONT=&quot]Tickell says thorium reactors would not reduce the volume of waste from uranium reactors. 'It will create a whole new volume of radioactive waste from previously radio-inert thorium, on top of the waste from uranium reactors. Looked at in these terms, it's a way of multiplying the volume of radioactive waste humanity can create several times over.'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Putative waste benefits – such as the impressive claims made by former Nasa scientist Kirk Sorensen, one of thorium's staunchest advocates – have the potential to be outweighed by a proliferating number of MSRs. There are already 442 traditional reactors already in operation globally, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. The by-products of thousands of smaller, ostensibly less wasteful reactors would soon add up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anti-nuclear campaigner Peter Karamoskos goes further, dismissing a 'dishonest fantasy' perpetuated by the pro-nuclear lobby.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thorium cannot in itself power a reactor; unlike natural uranium, it does not contain enough fissile material to initiate a nuclear chain reaction. As a result it must first be bombarded with neutrons to produce the highly radioactive isotope uranium-233 – 'so these are really U-233 reactors,' says Karamoskos.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This isotope is more hazardous than the U-235 used in conventional reactors, he adds, because it produces U-232 as a side effect (half life: 160,000 years), on top of familiar fission by-products such as technetium-99 (half life: up to 300,000 years) and iodine-129 (half life: 15.7 million years).Add in actinides such as protactinium-231 (half life: 33,000 years) and it soon becomes apparent that thorium's superficial cleanliness will still depend on dig
ging some pretty deep holes to bury the highly radioactive waste.

The Guardian[/FONT]
 
Spent fuel is a misnomer, it is still very usable in a molten salt reactor. So in fact thorium reactors will be able to utilise spent fuel as a feedstock.

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So you're saying you never have to dispose of spent thorium? I'm not sure how cost effective this reprocessing would be on an industrial scale, given the necessary facilities to do so?
 
So you're saying you never have to dispose of spent thorium? I'm not sure how cost effective this reprocessing would be on an industrial scale, given the necessary facilities to do so?
Well in effect as the fuel exists in liquid form it doesn't suffer from the formation of actinides which poison the fission process in solid fuel rod reactors. In fact many of the byproducts are gaseous and naturally just bubble up so they can be recovered. It is actually far simpler, there are no fuel rods to worry about and the reactor operates at atmospheric pressure hence obviating the need for high pressure vessels.

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Well in effect as the fuel exists in liquid form it doesn't suffer from the formation of actinides which poison the fission process in solid fuel rod reactors. In fact many of the byproducts are gaseous and naturally just bubble up so they can be recovered. It is actually far simpler, there are no fuel rods to worry about and the reactor operates at atmospheric pressure hence obviating the need for high pressure vessels.

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Yes, but isn't that only with salt reactors? And after processing, which I didn't think was being done on an industrial scale yet?
 
Yes, but isn't that only with salt reactors? And after processing, which I didn't think was being done on an industrial scale yet?
You seem determined to find out something negative about thorium reactors. Why I don't really know, maybe you could explain?

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You seem determined to find out something negative about thorium reactors. Why I don't really know, maybe you could explain?

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You seem determined to find something positive about the nuclear industry. Why I don't really know. Maybe you could explain, given that thorium was started in the 1950s, with no industrial sized successes.
 
Rune is another that is determined to discover the negative aspects only. This is truly ironic as Norway has done research on using thorium mixed with plutonium in a conventional reactor. They found that they could reduce stocks of plutonium relatively easily.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...rovide-cleaner-safer-almost-waste-free-energy

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Interesting read. I'm finding that a lot of the info is from the same period of time as this link....about 4 years ago. Any updates?
 
You seem determined to find something positive about the nuclear industry. Why I don't really know. Maybe you could explain, given that thorium was started in the 1950s, with no industrial sized successes.
If you read any of the articles I posted you'd be able to answer that question yourself! I can't believe you really are as dim and lazy as you make out.

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To summarise, I see thorium becoming extremely important in years to come, it is not without some negatives but they pale into insignificance compared to the positive attributes. I realise that despite what Bill Gates and many others say, there will still be those that will instinctively be against anything nuclear.

http://liquidfluoridethoriumreactor.glerner.com/


Sent from my iPhone 10S
 
To summarise, I see thorium becoming extremely important in years to come, it is not without some negatives but they pale into insignificance compared to the positive attributes. I realise that despite what Bill Gates and many others say, there will still be those that will instinctively be against anything nuclear.

http://liquidfluoridethoriumreactor.glerner.com/


Sent from my iPhone 10S

To summarize; by the time thorium reactors are perfected and given the same level of subsidy, green energy would render them obsolete in all but the most populous countries.

I realize that there will always be those who are opposed to fueless energy sources.
 
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