PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
yep, Democrat Party.......or if you prefer DemocRat Party......or Democrap Party........
Why are white, uneducated voters voting for Trump?
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
yep, Democrat Party.......or if you prefer DemocRat Party......or Democrap Party........
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
the ACA will pay for itself......
#282
Anyone liking sausages or laws shouldn't watch either being made.
ACA is clearly sub-optimal.
BUT !!
I'll agree with Obama this far:
Before ACA worker healthcare was provided by employers.
The consequence?
Consider the obvious automobile example.
Cars produced in nations that had socialized medicine had worker medical care from the government.
Cars produced in the U.S. had medical care provided from the car maker.
That added $Thousands to the cost of each car the U.S. produced; giving the U.S. a competitive disadvantage.
Obama wanted the U.S. to not merely compete, but to win!
Thus: ACA / Obamacare.
Is it what he wanted?
No. I suspect he'd have preferred universal single-payer.
But I think he claims he got millions more Americans insured. By his standard, that's an improvement.
Anyone liking sausages or laws shouldn't watch either being made.
ACA is clearly sub-optimal.
BUT !!
I'll agree with Obama this far:
Before ACA worker healthcare was provided by employers.
The consequence?
Consider the obvious automobile example.
Cars produced in nations that had socialized medicine had worker medical care from the government.
Cars produced in the U.S. had medical care provided from the car maker.
That added $Thousands to the cost of each car the U.S. produced; giving the U.S. a competitive disadvantage.
Obama wanted the U.S. to not merely compete, but to win!
Thus: ACA / Obamacare.
Is it what he wanted?
No. I suspect he'd have preferred universal single-payer.
But I think he claims he got millions more Americans insured. By his standard, that's an improvement.
cawacko
Well-known member
"Affordable Care Act" that's in a death spiral. Hell of an achievement
cawacko
Well-known member
"Affordable Care Act" that's in a death spiral. Hell of an achievement
Althea
Althea told me...
So it doesn't have to be made great again?
What does 'economic superpower' mean, and how does it affect the chasm between the wealthy in this country, and everyone else? So you admit that we're not as mighty as you think we are when it comes to military might?
I'd say we're rather impotent.
Althea
Althea told me...
Pretty sure China is kicking our ass economically. Many oil rich nations too.
Nation building is a failed neo-con idea. I t deserves condemnation/
if you are intellectually honest you'd condemn the humanitarian war of Libya too - both are neocon. Bush and HRClinton
cawacko
Well-known member
If you need a basic lesson on economics there are better places for it than here. What is the main currency used across the globe? Whose bonds do most countries purchase for their safety?
Althea
Althea told me...
How do you criticize it, when it isn't even close to the law that was passed? Your team worked tirelessly to make affordable health care available to everyone.
You've come close to success, but not quite. Even with my rate hike, I'm paying less than I was 5 years ago...when I had less coverage.
cawacko
Well-known member
I'd recommend reading the Economist on a regular basis to get a much better why neither of those is true, ESPECIALLY the last part
Althea
Althea told me...
If you don't want to address the reality of the state of the economic divide in this country, I don't blame you. It negates your entire argument.
Trust me..I don't consult you for 'lessons' on anything. So now you've backpedaled to referencing temporary stability (bolstered by the Fed printing more fake money) of the dollar as equating to 'the greatest economy in the history of the world'?
Can I get a 'Bigly'?
Althea
Althea told me...
I don't need to read anything. I'm debunking your position with one arm tied behind my back.
Maybe I'll smoke a joint, just to give you a fighting chance.
evince
Truthmatters
only because they have gov backing industry
they cant sustain it
they are about to pull it back and struggle
evince
Truthmatters
China Entering Ugly Recession, Not Just a “Hard Landing
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/china-entering-ugly-recession-not-just-a-hard-landing/
If bank lending, the only still growing element of the three, is focused on throwing more money at zombie companies to keep them afloat, on bailing out toxic debt by replacing it with even more new debt, and on creating even more overcapacity and empty buildings that will never earn the returns to service the debt, well, then it’s not adding to economic growth in a sustainable way either.
This is how New York Times reporter Michael Schuman described the now failing industrial principles of China via cement maker Lucheng Zhuoyue in Changzhi, a city of three million people:
Changzhi and its environs are littered with half-dead cement factories and silent, mothballed plants, an eerie backdrop to the struggling Chinese economy.
Like many industrial cities across China, Changzhi, which expanded aggressively during the country’s long investment boom, has too many factories and too little demand. That excess capacity, many economists indicate, will have to be eliminated for the Chinese economy to return to healthy growth.
But rather than shut down, Lucheng Zhuoyue and other Changzhi companies are limping along in a kind of march of the undead.
They’re losing money. Customers are disappearing. Yet, these already over-indebted companies are borrowing even more to stay afloat and keep going.
“If we ceased production, the losses would be crushing,” Lucheng Zhuoyue’s general director Miao Leijie told the New York Times. “We are working for the bank.”
With ghost cities and unneeded factories dotting the land, construction projects have been scaled back, and demand for cement has collapsed. Hence rampant overcapacity.
A couple of years ago, the new government pledged to restructure the economy, weed out overcapacity, take the losses where necessary, and transition the economy to high-value manufacturing, innovation, and services. Companies would be allowed to fold. And their debts would be allowed to default.
But when economic growth spiraled down, reform efforts stopped. Now the government and its state-owned megabanks keep these companies alive by rolling over their debts, restructuring loans, and extending new credit and other aid to keep the old debt from blowing up.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/china-entering-ugly-recession-not-just-a-hard-landing/
If bank lending, the only still growing element of the three, is focused on throwing more money at zombie companies to keep them afloat, on bailing out toxic debt by replacing it with even more new debt, and on creating even more overcapacity and empty buildings that will never earn the returns to service the debt, well, then it’s not adding to economic growth in a sustainable way either.
This is how New York Times reporter Michael Schuman described the now failing industrial principles of China via cement maker Lucheng Zhuoyue in Changzhi, a city of three million people:
Changzhi and its environs are littered with half-dead cement factories and silent, mothballed plants, an eerie backdrop to the struggling Chinese economy.
Like many industrial cities across China, Changzhi, which expanded aggressively during the country’s long investment boom, has too many factories and too little demand. That excess capacity, many economists indicate, will have to be eliminated for the Chinese economy to return to healthy growth.
But rather than shut down, Lucheng Zhuoyue and other Changzhi companies are limping along in a kind of march of the undead.
They’re losing money. Customers are disappearing. Yet, these already over-indebted companies are borrowing even more to stay afloat and keep going.
“If we ceased production, the losses would be crushing,” Lucheng Zhuoyue’s general director Miao Leijie told the New York Times. “We are working for the bank.”
With ghost cities and unneeded factories dotting the land, construction projects have been scaled back, and demand for cement has collapsed. Hence rampant overcapacity.
A couple of years ago, the new government pledged to restructure the economy, weed out overcapacity, take the losses where necessary, and transition the economy to high-value manufacturing, innovation, and services. Companies would be allowed to fold. And their debts would be allowed to default.
But when economic growth spiraled down, reform efforts stopped. Now the government and its state-owned megabanks keep these companies alive by rolling over their debts, restructuring loans, and extending new credit and other aid to keep the old debt from blowing up.
cawacko
Well-known member
The issue is not the economic divide in this country. That's a different topic. We were discussing America being the world's economic superpower which it is. We were discussing always being great because this started when Christiefan said she was offended that someone would say this country was ever not great.
cawacko
Well-known member
El Oh El, ok economist extraordinaire. Please name an oil country that's more an economic power than the U.S. Please explain how China is more an economic power than the U.S.