Pence won on style.

[Althea]

That's irrational. If Trump lost then Pence lost. You can't really say Kaine won but Pence unquestionably lost.

Again...the general consensus...not necessarily my feelings, although I wasn't impressed by the way Kaine seemed over amped at times. He did calm down, and Pence had his share of interruptions.


But, the general consensus is that Pence won, and Trump lost. Many in the Republican party found their next candidate based solely on looks, and ability to look right into the camera and lie. Two of the most important requirements in the party.

Pence failed at addressing the myriad problems with Trump's rhetoric, and campaign in general. Pence succeeded in getting his party to wish he were the primary candidate in this race.

I'd say his stock went up within his own party.

 

[Althea]

Its worse than that. He listened, but chose instead to stick his political finger in the wind. Clinton and Obama are directly accountable to the uprising of ISIS in the region. Obama and Hillary are politicians, not leaders.

So you're another who believes that we should occupy Iraq forever?

 

[J Craft]

So you're another who believes that we should occupy Iraq forever?

No, I'm another who understands there's a lot of room between always and never. No one I have read or heard, has suggested this stupidity. A SOFA negotiation never required a forever occupation. That's just liberal moronic blather to cover up the fact that Obama failed to act like a leader, and instead just stuck his arrogant and incompetent political finger in the wind.

 

[Darth Omar]

No, I'm another who understands there's a lot of room between always and never. No one I have read or heard, has suggested this stupidity. A SOFA negotiation never required a forever occupation. That's just liberal moronic blather to cover up the fact that Obama failed to act like a leader, and instead just stuck his arrogant and incompetent political finger in the wind.

No way Obama was going to keep on with the 'occupation' of Iraq lol.

A total pullout was one of the cornerstones of his 2008 campaign. So when the Iraqis bulked at the negotiating table that provided political cover for him.

I forget who it was, but even one of his own generals criticized the administration [which included Hillary as Sec State] for not pressing for a SOFA.

It's a familiar pattern with Obama: when bad things happen he plays the helpless observer. But anyone who pays attention knows he dropped the ball on Iraq.

 

[Truth Detector]

It's a Trump commercial, dumbfuck. And a rhetorical question. You'll have to look that word up, douchebag.

But, I'll repeat. Her current lead is more than enough to ensure President Clinton. Sucks for you, doesn't it, asswipe?

Dear brain dead leftist moron; it was a Trump commercial using HER words. One has to wonder how anyone this stupid functions without a brain. Calling you a moron is an insult to morons. But it certainly explains why you are a bleeding heart Democrat constituent stuck on stupid.

 

[Truth Detector]

Hilarious that you guys think using a rhetorical device is equal to asking a sincere question.

Says the moron who constantly erupts rhetorically and anecdotally. You're a brain dead hypocrite on steroids.

 

[Truth Detector]

So you're another who believes that we should occupy Iraq forever?

No one ever complained about our "occupation" of Europe for 50 years. We go into a land that has NEVER known democracy and everyone, especially leftist hypocrites, think we should be done in a year. It really is mind-bogglingly stupid.

 

[Althea]

No, I'm another who understands there's a lot of room between always and never. No one I have read or heard, has suggested this stupidity. A SOFA negotiation never required a forever occupation. That's just liberal moronic blather to cover up the fact that Obama failed to act like a leader, and instead just stuck his arrogant and incompetent political finger in the wind.

Go ahead, genius. Why don't you 'suggest' your plan. And please....I need you to be very specific with respect to an exit strategy.

Bear in mind that ISIS will never have a shortage of recruits just waiting to join the jihad.

For extra credit, please tell us how many American lives you wish to invest in this ridiculous strategy.

You lose points if you reference 'the surge', as that was little more than the U.S. literally bribing terrorists not to attack us.

 

[Althea]

No way Obama was going to keep on with the 'occupation' of Iraq lol.

A total pullout was one of the cornerstones of his 2008 campaign. So when the Iraqis bulked at the negotiating table that provided political cover for him.

I forget who it was, but even one of his own generals criticized the administration [which included Hillary as Sec State] for not pressing for a SOFA.

It's a familiar pattern with Obama: when bad things happen he plays the helpless observer. But anyone who pays attention knows he dropped the ball on Iraq.

Awww....one of the members of the short bus is trying to show us what he's learned today.

Why do you think Obama campaigned on the '08 exit?

Could it be due to the end of the SOFA agreement that Bush created?

I notice you still haven't blessed us with your 'strategy'.

I'll throw a 'lol' in just because it makes you feel important.

 

[sear]

". A SOFA negotiation never required a forever occupation. " #268

Absolutely 100% correct.

"That's just liberal moronic blather " #268

C+
It is "moronic blather" undeniably. That is "liberal", I could not explain. Can you?

 

[Althea]

Absolutely 100% correct.

C+
It is "moronic blather" undeniably. That is "liberal", I could not explain. Can you?

Please...by all means....bless us with your undeniable plan that you feel was going to work in Iraq.

 

[J Craft]

Go ahead, genius. Why don't you 'suggest' your plan. And please....I need you to be very specific with respect to an exit strategy.

Bear in mind that ISIS will never have a shortage of recruits just waiting to join the jihad.

For extra credit, please tell us how many American lives you wish to invest in this ridiculous strategy.

You lose points if you reference 'the surge', as that was little more than the U.S. literally bribing terrorists not to attack us.

The specifics had already been laid out under Bush. Are you voicing an opinion here without knowing what that was? Can you tell us what that was? Obama caved over a single point that he used as an EXCUSE to pull out.

 

[Darth Omar]

Awww....one of the members of the short bus is trying to show us what he's learned today.

Why do you think Obama campaigned on the '08 exit?

Could it be due to the end of the SOFA agreement that Bush created?

I notice you still haven't blessed us with your 'strategy'.

I'll throw a 'lol' in just because it makes you feel important.

The 'strategy', in hindsight, would have been to maintain a stable Iraq. Which would have meant renegotiating the SOFA signed by Bush II but was set to expire under first term Obama.

I posted a YouTube of Bush II explaining exactly what would happen if it wasn't successfully renegotiated.

And he was pretty damned accurate lol.

 

[Althea]

The specifics had already been laid out under Bush. Are you voicing an opinion here without knowing what that was? Can you tell us what that was? Obama caved over a single point that he used as an EXCUSE to pull out.

You're giving credence to anything Bush ever 'laid out'. I won't waste my time listening to that moron. So you have nothing to offer?

Why not give me the Cliff notes version of your favorite Bush bullet points?

 

[Althea]

The 'strategy', in hindsight, would have been to maintain a stable Iraq. Which would have meant renegotiating the SOFA signed by Bush II but was set to expire under first term Obama.

I posted a YouTube of Bush II explaining exactly what would happen if it wasn't successfully renegotiated.

And he was pretty damned accurate lol.

Again.....I will not give any credence to a 'Bush plan'.

How do you maintain a stable Iraq, unless you keep troops there in perpetuity?

 

[sear]

" your undeniable plan that you feel was going to work in Iraq. " #271

Alright.
I've never mentioned it before. Not on the Internet, not in person, not in voice, not in text, not by carrier pigeon, not by smoke signal or by any other means.

BUT !!

Now that you mention it, perhaps by pure coincidence, I actually do.

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits." Thomas Jefferson

"American people are friends of Liberty everywhere, but custodians only of their own." John Adams

I confess, I was vehemently, adamantly opposed to the U.S. military invasion and occupation of Iraq from the moment President Bush announced it.
My transcendent deficiency was, I had little idea just how brilliantly correct I was about it.
I knew it would be a disaster. I simply failed to gauge the true scale; a catastrophe.

" your undeniable plan that you feel was going to work in Iraq. " #271

sear's "undeniable" ("undeniable" ?!) plan? Leave Iraqi sovereignty to the Iraqis. Had we done so the United States of America would be $Trillions less in $debt, and thousands richer in population.

Thanks for asking.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Hilarious that you guys think using a rhetorical device is equal to asking a sincere question.

has being an idiot ALWAYS been a rhetorical device or is that something new?.....

 

[Althea]

Alright.
I've never mentioned it before. Not on the Internet, not in person, not in voice, not in text, not by carrier pigeon, not by smoke signal or by any other means.

BUT !!

Now that you mention it, perhaps by pure coincidence, I actually do.

I confess, I was vehemently, adamantly opposed to the U.S. military invasion and occupation of Iraq from the moment President Bush announced it.
My transcendent deficiency was, I had little idea just how brilliantly correct I was about it.
I knew it would be a disaster. I simply failed to gauge the true scale; a catastrophe.

sear's "undeniable" ("undeniable" ?!) plan? Leave Iraqi sovereignty to the Iraqis. Had we done so the United States of America would be $Trillions less in $debt, and thousands richer in population.

Thanks for asking.

We are in 100% agreement that the invasion was a mistake. Some of us knew that as Bush was beating the drums of war.

I believe this discussion, complete with your bandwagon comments about my claim about troops, is what exactly you feel the better plan was w/respect to withdrawing from Iraq?

Even staunch Conservatives now know that the invasion was a horrible idea. What is it that you believe could have achieved your above stated goals, without a permanent troop presence?

 

[Darth Omar]

Again.....I will not give any credence to a 'Bush plan'.

How do you maintain a stable Iraq, unless you keep troops there in perpetuity?

Dude, we're going around in circles.

You are aware we have kept troops in Europe since the end of WWII, right?

Why is Iraq different? Is it because it's 'Bush's war' lol?

 

[Althea]

Dude, we're going around in circles.

You are aware we have kept troops in Europe since the end of WWII, right?

Why is Iraq different? Is it because it's 'Bush's war' lol?

How many troops that you reference have been killed in Europe post war?

I have friends who were stationed in Germany in the 70's/80's during peace time. It was safe to enlist back then.

Surely, you aren't comparing the Iraq debacle to Europe?

We aren't going in circles. I see no way that Iraq would ever be 'stable', without American troops present. You seem to disagree. The region is unstable now,

in large part because our decades old program of reaping huge profits from the manufacture of weapons (for sale to our 'allies'), has made our most primitive enemies very dangerous. We have no control over these weapons, and we have no control over those who wage guerilla warfare. We should have learned that after losing the Vietnam war.