Irony

cawacko said:
What about all the folks who protested the war and are now backing someone who voted for it?
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I know and it's causing me a lot of angst but what's the alternative? Voting for someone as utterly unqualified as Trump?

I should have never taken that vow to never vote for anyone who voted for the immoral war in Iraq. I didn't for see the current situation.

I've decided I'm going to swallow a bitter pill and vote for Clinton, warts and all, then risk Trump getting elected.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution


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The resolution cited many factors as justifying the use of military force against Iraq:[3][4]
Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 ceasefire agreement, including interference with U.N. weapons inspectors.
Iraq "continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability" and "actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability" posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."
Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."
Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people".
Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt on former President George H. W. Bush and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.
Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations.
Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers.
The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and those who aided or harbored them.
The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.
The governments in Turkey, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power.
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.
 
cawacko said:
You didn't mention yourself you mentioned the Dixie chicks. And they 1) had an audience that at the time generally supported the war and 2) violated an unwritten rule of soeaking out against the war and the President on foreign soil during the war
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That's hyperbole in regards to an unwritten rule. If that's an unwritten rule it's about as un-American one as you can get.

You are correct in that it alienated a large percentage of their audience and I shed not a single tear for them over that.
 
Thing1 said:
Did I need to mention myself? My allegiance is w/ the Chicks, free speech & the idea of dissent. That was an absolutely horrific period of time in this country when it comes to the concept of free speech and just the basics of what it means to be an American. It was absolutely disgusting, and the perpetrators of that climate are now steadfastly behind someone who claims they opposed the war from day 1.

And I don't give a shit about "unwritten rules" that tell people they have to keep their mouth shut when someone in power is abusing that power and unnecessarily putting brave teenagers who have sword to protect all of us in harm's way. Who makes those rules? Should that REALLY be a rule?
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I agree with you 100% but by golly you'd better be willing to pay the price.

My sentiment is this. If the Dixie Chicks made those comments understanding the consequences then they have my admiration for their courage in doing the right thing. Someone had to speak out about the neocons immoral war in Iraq and the irreparable damage they did to the U.S.'s reputation.

If they made those comments off the cuff without considering the damage it would do to them commercially and are crying over it...then I say tough shit. If making money was more important to you than doing the right thing than you should have kept your mouth shut.
 
cawacko said:
You're right. A rapper could come out today and say they support Trump. They have every right to do so but chances are its at odds with much of their fan base and would lose them credibility and many insults would be heaped upon them.
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However if it is truly what they believe and they have the courage of their convictions to do so knowing what the cost will be...then I would admire their courage.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War#UN_resolutions



With the support of large bipartisan majorities, the U.S. Congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. The resolution asserts the authorization by the Constitution of the United States and the United States Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism. Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement. The resolution "supported" and "encouraged" diplomatic efforts by President George W. Bush to "strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq" and "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq". The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq".
 
Thing1 said:
I didn't shed tears, but I thought it was a dark time for free speech. We shouldn't have an expression along the line of getting "Dixie Chick'd."

As I've said: if you don't like someone's opinion, counter it. Make your argument & try to prevail in the marketplace of ideas.

Just trying to shut someone up? Pretty sad, imo. Weak.
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I agree but you can't be naïve either. All I'm saying is that if the Dixie Chick's made those comments without thinking about the commercial consequences...that was a dumb thing to do. If they did that understanding what the consequences would be than they have my admiration for being so courageous and doing the right thing by speaking out about that immoral war.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I agree but you can't be naïve either. All I'm saying is that if the Dixie Chick's made those comments without thinking about the commercial consequences...that was a dumb thing to do. If they did that understanding what the consequences would be than they have my admiration for being so courageous and doing the right thing by speaking out about that immoral war.
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I think the 1st comment was off the cuff, but afterwards, they didn't back down - I would characterize a lot of what they said & did during the turmoil as courageous, and principled.

"Shut up & Sing" is really a great documentary on that whole period of time. It shows some of the choices they had to make after the initial statement - they always put principle ahead of profit.
 
Thing1 said:
I think the 1st comment was off the cuff, but afterwards, they didn't back down - I would characterize a lot of what they said & did during the turmoil as courageous, and principled.

"Shut up & Sing" is really a great documentary on that whole period of time. It shows some of the choices they had to make after the initial statement - they always put principle ahead of profit.
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I agree. I admire them for the stand they took. I'm not going to buy their newest album though. I still think country music sucks.
 
what percent of the country was for the resolution?


she made the mistake of trusting Bush



the country did too


I didnt
 
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