Anatta .. Are You Ready To Join Our Cause Now?

it looks like some kina organizing method for a Constitutional law class.
That's fine for studying case law -but I was speaking more about Constitutional philosophy.
Which is why I've gone back to textualism...the text is always paramount, and cannot be disputed

It is the a philosophy of the interpretation of the 14th amendment that allows the SCOTUS to create new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution or even backed up by case law. One example though I support it would be the right to privacy when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment.


The Incorporation Debate
The Issue: Does the Fourteenth Amendment "Incorporate" the Protections of the Bill of Rights and Make Them Enforceable Against the States?



Finally, one could adopt either a "Selective Incorporation Plus" view or a Total Incorporation Plus" (see Justice Murphy's view in Adamson, for example) view. These views hold that in addition to incorporating some or all of the provisions of the Bill of Rights, the Fourteenth Amendment also prohibits certain other fundamental rights from being abridged by the states.


http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/incorp.htm
 
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It is the a philosophy of the interpretation of the 14th amendment that allows the SCOTUS to create new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution or even backed up by case law. One example though I support it would be the right to privacy when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment.

What was the impetus for and what does the 9th Amendment mean to you?
 
What was the impetus for and what does the 9th Amendment mean to you?

It does not give the judiciary the ability to legislate from the bench, you can claim that anything is an inalienable right but that does not make it so EG the right to health care, and it certainly does not grant the SCOTUS the ability to overturn the tenth amendment by allowing the federal government to deny the states and people within those states the ability to hold referendums EG the decriminalization of Marijuana or a ban on gay marriage.
 
It is the a philosophy of the interpretation of the 14th amendment that allows the SCOTUS to create new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution or even backed up by case law. One example though I support it would be the right to privacy when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment.


The Incorporation Debate
The Issue: Does the Fourteenth Amendment "Incorporate" the Protections of the Bill of Rights and Make Them Enforceable Against the States?



Finally, one could adopt either a "Selective Incorporation Plus" view or a Total Incorporation Plus" (see Justice Murphy's view in Adamson, for example) view. These views hold that in addition to incorporating some or all of the provisions of the Bill of Rights, the Fourteenth Amendment also prohibits certain other fundamental rights from being abridged by the states.


http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/incorp.htm
it's interesting, but I really do not feel like debating certain amendments -especially in that perspective
 
it's interesting, but I really do not feel like debating certain amendments -especially in that perspective

That's fine I just pointed it out as it goes to the heart of modern judicial interpretation, the scope of the SCOTUSs purview, and many current contentious judicial decisions EG Roe V Wade, Obergefell v. Hodges, etc.
 
It does not give the judiciary the ability to legislate from the bench, you can claim that anything is an inalienable right but that does not make it so EG the right to health care, and it certainly does not grant the SCOTUS the ability to overturn the tenth amendment by allowing the federal government to deny the states and people within those states the ability to hold referendums EG the decriminalization of Marijuana or a ban on gay marriage.

I was hoping for an answer that was in line with your statement I quoted; you are now jumping all over the place and there is no continuity to your argument.

The impetus for the 9th Amendment was Federalist arguments against adding a bill of rights. Their fears and warnings about trying to list rights are brought to life in your statements decrying the "creat[ion of] new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution" like privacy, "when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment".

The legal theory that recognized the right to privacy is not based / grounded in the 14th Amendment, it is based on the principle of the 9th Amendment (Harlan's dissent in Poe v Ullman). The 14th was just the vehicle to apply the theory to state action (as applied in Griswold v CT).
 
I was hoping for an answer that was in line with your statement I quoted; you are now jumping all over the place and there is no continuity to your argument.

The impetus for the 9th Amendment was Federalist arguments against adding a bill of rights. Their fears and warnings about trying to list rights are brought to life in your statements decrying the "creat[ion of] new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution" like privacy, "when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment".

The legal theory that recognized the right to privacy is not based / grounded in the 14th Amendment, it is based on the principle of the 9th Amendment (Harlan's dissent in Poe v Ullman). The 14th was just the vehicle to apply the theory to state action (as applied in Griswold v CT).
doesn't the IX and Xth both do that? or is the Xth just about which body hold powers?
 
doesn't the IX and Xth both do that? or is the Xth just about which body hold powers?

The 9th speaks directly to the argument of, "where's THAT right in the Constitution?" often heard from abortion foes.

It is to me the singular point that eliminates "social conservatives" from carrying the mantle of "strict constructionist" or claiming any attachment to "original intent". The 9th Amendment is their Kryptonite.

And yes, I do include Scalia in that . . .

The 10th affirms the commingled principles of conferred powers and retained rights (all not surrendered is retained) and that is the anathema of liberalism and their agenda of "second generation" social, cultural and economic rights.
 
The 9th speaks directly to the argument of, "where's THAT right in the Constitution?" often heard from abortion foes.

It is to me the singular point that eliminates "social conservatives" from carrying the mantle of "strict constructionist" or claiming any attachment to "original intent". The 9th Amendment is their Kryptonite.

And yes, I do include Scalia in that . . .

The 10th affirms the commingled principles of conferred powers and retained rights (all not surrendered is retained) and that is the anathema of liberalism and their agenda of "second generation" social, cultural and economic rights.
good. Obviously there has to be more then enumerated rights for courts to function.

But then how do you discern what is just conjured up and what truly are human rights?
I guess I all comes from what the court says is a right or not.
 
The 9th speaks directly to the argument of, "where's THAT right in the Constitution?" often heard from abortion foes.

It is to me the singular point that eliminates "social conservatives" from carrying the mantle of "strict constructionist" or claiming any attachment to "original intent". The 9th Amendment is their Kryptonite.

And yes, I do include Scalia in that . . .

The 10th affirms the commingled principles of conferred powers and retained rights (all not surrendered is retained) and that is the anathema of liberalism and their agenda of "second generation" social, cultural and economic rights.


What a bunch of nonsense first you can say anything is an inalienable right that does not make it so and secondly the tenth amendment explicitly states that those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution are left to the people or the states not the SCOTUS.
 
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I was hoping for an answer that was in line with your statement I quoted; you are now jumping all over the place and there is no continuity to your argument.

The impetus for the 9th Amendment was Federalist arguments against adding a bill of rights. Their fears and warnings about trying to list rights are brought to life in your statements decrying the "creat[ion of] new rights that are not explicitly written in the Constitution" like privacy, "when the word privacy is to be found nowhere in the 4th amendment".

The legal theory that recognized the right to privacy is not based / grounded in the 14th Amendment, it is based on the principle of the 9th Amendment (Harlan's dissent in Poe v Ullman). The 14th was just the vehicle to apply the theory to state action (as applied in Griswold v CT).

You want to read the 9th Amendment by ignoring the tenth completely, the tenth expressly states that this is an issue for the people or the states not the SCOTUS through an insane interpretation of the 14th amendment which allows them to legislate from the bench, the SCOTUS is not a legislative body!
 
The DNC was rigged for crooked hillary. Her email investigation was rigged by Loretta Lynch.

This is how the Clinton machine operates.
 
good. Obviously there has to be more then enumerated rights for courts to function.

But then how do you discern what is just conjured up and what truly are human rights?
I guess I all comes from what the court says is a right or not.

Today the SCOTUS makes up those rights out of whole cloth through their reading of the 14th amendment allowing for total/selective incorporation plus EG legislating from the bench.
 
Obviously there has to be more then enumerated rights for courts to function.

But a fundamental principle is that a court's duty (even SCOTUS) isn't to decide if a right exists or whether it's really worth protecting, (i.e., Breyer's "interest balancing" approach in Heller), their purview is limited to the law created under the authority of the Constitution.

But then how do you discern what is just conjured up and what truly are human rights?

Well, to me "conjuring" can have two connotations here, one good and one bad.

The SCOTUS "finding" the right to privacy is not something I disagree with. I consider privacy (as we understand it today) to be an original, negative liberty perfectly aligned with the enumerated negative rights. I do not really find fault with the Court's reasoning in Griswold (penumbral rights theory) because I consider it to be well within the philosophical foundation of the 9th Amendment.

The guiding principle of the 9th has become diluted and perverted over the years and part of the problem is of the Court's making. Without getting too far in the weeds, in 1873 the Court gutted the "privileges or immunities" clause of the 14th Amendment in The Slaughterhouse Cases. After Slaughterhouse, the only remaining legal path to apply the Bill of Rights to the states was "due process" or "equal protection" but those paths required a fact by fact, case by case analysis which begot a dribs and drabs "selective incorporation" of the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

Slaughterhouse effectively killed the concept of "liberty" being enforced by SCOTUS and penumbral rights theory is a half-assed attempt to reinvigorate it (but modern liberals now claim the benefits of the theory (abortion / LGBTQ rights etc,) while ignoring / dismissing the foundational premise.

I do find fault with the Court conjuring positive rights like the right to healthcare from a loose reading of the general welfare clause or some sort of extra-constitutional social justice agenda.

I guess I all comes from what the court says is a right or not.

But then we are back to the starting point that says that rights, by their very nature do not depend on the Constitution (or the determinations / actions of entities (e.g., courts) that are created by, and derive their powers from, the Constitution) for their existence.

Instead of governmental power being bound and limited by first generation "negative" rights, the modern left's agenda is one of promoting second generation "positive" rights, those social, cultural and economic "rights" that describe circumstances, outcomes or tangibles that government must provide (or force private citizens to provide) to other citizens . . . Needless to say, these two philosophies demand very different roles for government.

The first generation is derived from the Glorious Revolution and Locke and Sidney and is based in keeping government out of our lives, the second is derived from the Bolshevik Revolution and Marx and Lenin and says how the state should take care of us and that the collective is more important than the individual. These themes have no attachment to the political philosophies embraced by the founders / framers and not recognized or allowed for in the US Constitution.

That's why the modern left is at war with the founding principles of the Constitution.
 
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oh please. Ambition and narcissism are 2 sides of the same coin. Do I think Clinton or Trump is more power-hungry?
and then do I think Clinton or Trump is more willing to use their arrogance of power ?

While Trump is a narcissist, we've seen Clinton utterly blow off criticism by "I didn't know" like last night on the 60minutes "extra"
but worse convene a cavalcade of ever widening lies to excuse her Emails. Until she had nowhere to go.

Right after Comey's scathing non-indictment she STILL shifted the blame to "more experienced officials" at State
for her various deceptive practices .She's a consummate shape-shifting power junkie warmongering screw up.
She's downright Nixonian, and the Democrats give her a pass.

so give me a break on who's character sucks the most.

Shut up retard
 
What a bunch of nonsense first you can say anything is an inalienable right that does not make it so

I'm not sure you understand what inalienable means.


You want to read the 9th Amendment by ignoring the tenth completely, the tenth expressly states that this is an issue for the people or the states not the SCOTUS through an insane interpretation of the 14th amendment which allows them to legislate from the bench, the SCOTUS is not a legislative body!

Is it your contention that the 14th Amendment is not a representation of the people and the states employing Article V and them speaking on the subject of federal enforcement of rights? You are reading the 10th as negating the actions of the people and the states ratifying the 14th Amendment.

Talk about a bunch of nonsense!
 
I'm not sure you understand what inalienable means.

Oh I know what it means. I don't think you know the difference between the Judiciary and the Legislature and why we have a Separation of Powers!


Is it your contention that the 14th Amendment is not a representation of the people and the states employing Article V and them speaking on the subject of federal enforcement of rights? You are reading the 10th as negating the actions of the people and the states ratifying the 14th Amendment.

Talk about a bunch of nonsense!

No you are the one spouting the nonsense I never claimed that the 14th amendment was illegitimate, the 14th amendment certainly allows for total and selective incorporation of the Bill of Rights upon the states, but it does not allow for total and selective incorporation plus whereby the SCOTUS not the Bill of Rights determines the limits of the Powers of the State governments when the tenth amendment is clear that that is up to the people of the states or through their duly elected state representatives. Why even have a legislature when you think the 9th Amendment in conjunction with the 14th grants the SCOTUS the right to legislate both state and federal law?
 
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It is the Hillary campaign and the DNC that were proven to be run by Nazis in the WikiLeaks email dissemination, and it's Hillary and the DNC sending out their jack booted thugs to forcefully silence Bernie supporters and squash dissent, we are seeing now a night of the long knives purge of the Democratic Party, remember like Sanders even Rohm heiled his Fuhrer even as he was about to be executed.

Partisan crap. WE have HEARD the madman Trump.
 
Today the SCOTUS makes up those rights out of whole cloth through their reading of the 14th amendment allowing for total/selective incorporation plus EG legislating from the bench.

The 14th amendment gave too much power to the federal government. It was never ratified, it was inserted.
 
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