Republican wakes up!

[Legion Troll]

What, was Jesus' mission on earth? Did he come to condemn?

So there is no real Biblical reason for a "Christian" businessperson to refuse service to homosexuals, is there, Nurse? Lol.

 

[Stelakh]

Since you're determined to make a Sunday school lesson out of this thread, it should be noted that Jesus condemned very little. He didn't condemn very many things when presented the opportunity. Why is that? You might ask.

What, was Jesus' mission on earth? Did he come to condemn?

That's rather the point, Omar.

According to the New Testament, Jesus didn't come to earth to condemn, he didn't come to hate, he didn't come to discriminate and in fact told one man who had a homosexual lover that he'd be able to sit at the Big Boys Table in the kingdom of Heaven and healed the other.

So if I'm a baker and I refuse to bake a cake because the couple getting married are gay then I am going in direct contravention of what Jesus taught. And, I think you'll find, what Jesus taught is what Christianity is (or at least what it's supposed to be), so my "deeply-held religious beliefs" that I should discriminate against gays is not a Christian belief, and I can't claim it as First Amendment justification to not bake that cake.

 

[Darth Omar]

That's rather the point, Omar.

According to the New Testament, Jesus didn't come to earth to condemn, he didn't come to hate, he didn't come to discriminate and in fact told one man who had a homosexual lover that he'd be able to sit at the Big Boys Table in the kingdom of Heaven and healed the other.

Aren't you assuming they were gay lovers? How do you know they weren't mere companions?

So if I'm a baker and I refuse to bake a cake because the couple getting married are gay then I am going in direct contravention of what Jesus taught. And, I think you'll find, what Jesus taught is what Christianity is (or at least what it's supposed to be), so my "deeply-held religious beliefs" that I should discriminate against gays is not a Christian belief, and I can't claim it as First Amendment justification to not bake that cake.

What was Jesus mission? You never answered that.

The answer is related to why you're not as right as you think you are. Some Christians do spend too much time judging others. You're problem is you want to throw the baby out with the bath water lol. It begs the question of whether there's ANY instance where Christians can obey their religious principles.

Or are they forced to go with what society deems is right?

 

[canceled.2021.1]

You're not smart to enough to explain it, apparently, because your proposals don't list Pakistan, do they?

There are lots of countries that weren't listed that doesn't mean they wouldn't be included in a final proposal.

But then you voted for Trump. You support him.

 

[Legion Troll]

That's rather the point, Omar.

According to the New Testament, Jesus didn't come to earth to condemn, he didn't come to hate, he didn't come to discriminate and in fact told one man who had a homosexual lover that he'd be able to sit at the Big Boys Table in the kingdom of Heaven and healed the other.

So if I'm a baker and I refuse to bake a cake because the couple getting married are gay then I am going in direct contravention of what Jesus taught. And, I think you'll find, what Jesus taught is what Christianity is (or at least what it's supposed to be), so my "deeply-held religious beliefs" that I should discriminate against gays is not a Christian belief, and I can't claim it as First Amendment justification to not bake that cake.

Male Nursie can't cite any Biblical authority for "Christian" bigotry and intolerance either, it seems, lol.

 

[Legion Troll]

There are lots of countries that weren't listed that doesn't mean they wouldn't be included in a final proposal.

They aren't Trumps' proposals, they're yours.

I must have missed your labeling your idiotic proposals as "preliminary"...

I don't favor banning a religion. I favor banning a region.

Pretty simple actually. No immigration from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Africa, Saudi Arabja, Israel etc.

oh, wait...

 

[Stelakh]

Aren't you assuming they were gay lovers? How do you know they weren't mere companions?



What was Jesus mission? You never answered that.

The answer is related to why you're not as right as you think you are. Some Christians do spend too much time judging others. You're problem is you want to throw the baby out with the bath water lol. It begs the question of whether there's ANY instance where Christians can obey their religious principles.

Or are they forced to go with what society deems is right?

Jesus' mission on earth was more than that whole "Get nailed up, people go to heaven because somehow God killing his son (who is himself) wipes clean the sins of the believers when God could just wipe clean the sins of the believers without going through the whole torturing himself on the cross schtick."

He actually tells us what his mission is in Luke 4:18-19.

"To preach good news to the poor, to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

He went big on the Hippie stuff - especially among the sick, poor, needy, etc. He and his disciples were "fringe" because so were the people he worked hardest at sharing his message of hope with (hope that if they're obedient they'd get into heaven).

And he came to get the world back on its feet, because that whole "there shall be no poor among you" thing in Deuteronomy wasn't exactly working out.

Jesus came to coalesce the people, not to divide them through discrimination. His biggest goal was to put back together the various peoples of the world that God (who was really a prick in the Old Testament) had divided - to bring peace to and unify us as God's creation with God himself.

And you STILL don't find unification in the refusal to bake a cake because of discrimination.

If Christians want to obey their religious principles, then they should first know what the hell those principles are - and discrimination isn't one of them.

And that is why I am exactly as right as I think I am.

 

[Darth Omar]

Jesus' mission on earth was more than that whole "Get nailed up, people go to heaven because somehow God killing his son (who is himself) wipes clean the sins of the believers when God could just wipe clean the sins of the believers without going through the whole torturing himself on the cross schtick."

He actually tells us what his mission is in Luke 4:18-19.



He went big on the Hippie stuff - especially among the sick, poor, needy, etc. He and his disciples were "fringe" because so were the people he worked hardest at sharing his message of hope with (hope that if they're obedient they'd get into heaven).

And he came to get the world back on its feet, because that whole "there shall be no poor among you" thing in Deuteronomy wasn't exactly working out.

Jesus came to coalesce the people, not to divide them through discrimination. His biggest goal was to put back together the various peoples of the world that God (who was really a prick in the Old Testament) had divided - to bring peace to and unify us as God's creation with God himself.

And you STILL don't find unification in the refusal to bake a cake because of discrimination.

If Christians want to obey their religious principles, then they should first know what the hell those principles are - and discrimination isn't one of them.

And that is why I am exactly as right as I think I am.

You're really full of yourself aren't you lol.

"I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me". What do you suppose that means?

I guess you're biggest mistake is in omitting the rest of the NT in you're exegesis. Paul and other NT writers had plenty to say about this sort of thing, in Roman's chapter one, for example. Since Jesus' primary mission was to save sinners on the Cross, much of the dispensing of Christian doctrine was left to later NT writers.

With your theological errors dispensed with, that leaves the issue of whether Christian bakers are guilty of anything besides trying to be faithful to their religion as it relates to the gay life style. That they welcome gays into their business rules out rank bigotry. Apparently, they welcome gays into their business but draw the proverbial line at baking gay wedding cakes; which they believe, is tantamount to them sanctioning an act which their religion informs them, is contrary to scripture.

In other words, it would require them to violate their conscience. I guess in a more freer country, the bakers wouldn't be compelled by law to violate their religious principles and the gay couples would Google another baker in town.

But that would require compromise.

 

[Legion Troll]

II guess in a more freer country, the bakers wouldn't be compelled by law to violate their religious principles and the gay couples would Google another baker in town.

I hear there are some theocracies in Africa and the Middle East where it's legal to discriminate against homosexuals. You could Google another country and start a bakery there.

But quit pretending that there's a valid religious reason for Christian businesspersons to discriminate.

There isn't, Nurse.

Lol.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Since you're determined to make a Sunday school lesson out of this thread, it should be noted that Jesus condemned very little. He didn't condemn very many things when presented the opportunity. Why is that? You might ask.

What, was Jesus' mission on earth? Did he come to condemn?

Honestly, listening to some so-called "Christians," you would think his mission was to spread the word about the evils of homosexuality. Listening to some of these people, I'd expect to open the Bible and see very little aside from Jesus condemning homosexuals.

 

[Legion Troll]

Honestly, listening to some so-called "Christians," you would think his mission was to spread the word about the evils of homosexuality. Listening to some of these people, I'd expect to open the Bible and see very little aside from Jesus condemning homosexuals.

Instead, you see nothing from Jesus condemning homosexuals.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Isn't the whole idea that everyone is a "sinner"? If you're a Christian proprietor of a business, wouldn't you just refuse service to everyone?

 

[Legion Troll]

I think they just make shit up as they go along and think nobody will check.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I know you'll all get a chuckle out of this, but there is an example in the New testament where Jesus completely fails to discriminate against not one but two men who engage gay sex.

In Matthew 8:5-13, you will find that a Roman Centurion came to Jesus while he was in the city of Capernaum and asks him to heal someone.

It is changed in most bibles to read that the Centurian had asked Jesus to heal his "servant," but this is where a word was changed in order to serve the bigotry of the church.

In fact, the word used in the original ancient Greek was "pais." In the ancient world, and at the time this took place according to Matthew, "pais" is a term that means a servant who is the master's same-sex partner.

And yes, "same-sex partner" in context means they were sexual partners, not business partners.

And what did Jesus do? ("WDJD," perhaps.) Did he condemn the Centurion and his man-toy? Did he damn them to hell for eternity because they were riding the bologna pony? Did he even haul off give the Centurion a dirty look?

Not quite.

Jesus told the Centurion that he had more faith than anyone he'd come across and ALSO told him that he'd be able to hang out with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven, "...while the heirs of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness..."

And the Centurion's gay partner was healed less than an hour later.

He didn't discriminate against either of them (the Roman soldier who was "the enemy" or his gay lover), and instead showed them compassion, love and mercy.

Which is why you so rarely hear the "faithful" quote Matthew 8:5-13.

lol.....what gay website did you buy that malarkey from......

 

[Darth Omar]

Honestly, listening to some so-called "Christians," you would think his mission was to spread the word about the evils of homosexuality. Listening to some of these people, I'd expect to open the Bible and see very little aside from Jesus condemning homosexuals.

I've never actually heard a serious Christian make that argument about Jesus. If I had to pick a NT passage condemning gay sex I'd use Romans 1. But you've never seen me do that and you never will.

My contention is that these people aren't bigots. Or at least not neccessarily so. Bigotry is based on sheer animus towards a group. It doesn't make any sense that Christian bakers would serve gays, at all, if they were bigoted against gays. What they do is to refuse to bake gay wedding cakes because they, apparently, believe it would give sanction to something they believe is contrary to their religion.

SCOTUS had an opportunity to compromise and give just a smidgen of space to freedom of religion but they blew it.

 

[Legion Troll]

What they do is to refuse to bake gay wedding cakes because they, apparently, believe it would give sanction to something they believe is contrary to their religion.

Their decision to pretend that the Christian faith forbids them to serve homosexuals in a place of business open to the public is discrimination, Nurse.

People can't make up shit and claim it's protected by religious belief if that religion doesn't actually state that belief anywhere.

Court said "no", lol.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

They aren't Trumps' proposals, they're yours.

I must have missed your labeling your idiotic proposals as "preliminary"...









oh, wait...

Did I say they are Trumps? He is the guy you support. You should know his positions.

I didn't know I needed to spell out every tiny detail for you. Kindly go fuck yourself.

And thanks for going back to the thread ban. I always like confirmation that I am kicking your ass

 

[Legion Troll]

Did I say they are Trumps? He is the guy you support. You should know his positions. I didn't know I needed to spell out every tiny detail for you. Kindly go fuck yourself. And thanks for going back to the thread ban. I always like confirmation that I am kicking your ass

There are lots of countries that weren't listed that doesn't mean they wouldn't be included in a final proposal. But then you voted for Trump. You support him.

I accept your craven surrender.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I accept your craven surrender.

Can you show where one was offered?

I will understand if you can't find me saying those words.

Poor Trumpkin Troll

 

[Stelakh]

You're really full of yourself aren't you lol.

"I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me". What do you suppose that means?

I guess you're biggest mistake is in omitting the rest of the NT in you're exegesis. Paul and other NT writers had plenty to say about this sort of thing, in Roman's chapter one, for example. Since Jesus' primary mission was to save sinners on the Cross, much of the dispensing of Christian doctrine was left to later NT writers.

With your theological errors dispensed with, that leaves the issue of whether Christian bakers are guilty of anything besides trying to be faithful to their religion as it relates to the gay life style. That they welcome gays into their business rules out rank bigotry. Apparently, they welcome gays into their business but draw the proverbial line at baking gay wedding cakes; which they believe, is tantamount to them sanctioning an act which their religion informs them, is contrary to scripture.

In other words, it would require them to violate their conscience. I guess in a more freer country, the bakers wouldn't be compelled by law to violate their religious principles and the gay couples would Google another baker in town.

But that would require compromise.

You are correct about Jesus' primary mission which, I think you'll find, I in fact touched upon. But he came for more than just that, as I noted.

And again, if they believe condemning homosexual marriage by refusing to bake a cake is anything close to what Jesus taught, then they are in error about what Christianity is when compared to their version of it.

I've said it over and over in this thread, and it doesn't seem to sink in, but I'll say it again anyway.

Jesus was not here to condemn, nor did he. He preached love, acceptance and treating each other well and without discrimination. If one claims to be Christian and chooses to discriminate, then they don't understand what "Christian" is and as such cannot stand on the faith itself as justification for their prejudices.