Conservative vs. Liberal Values

kaz said:
Liberal values are that people who need help should get help. Unfortunately it's not a liberal value to do that themselves.

Conservatives believe when you are moral that is free choice. When you are immoral, only then is force used to compel you to be moral.
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People should be forced to be moral? Why? Who defines moral? What if it is legal?
 
ZoomZoom said:
I think this is fair and succinct article. Please read it and let's discuss it intelligently.

http://news-basics.com/2010/liberal-vs-conservative-values/
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The liberal view

• There are people in this world who need help. They struggle to put food on the table, or can’t afford medical care—and many of them live in the United States. A civilized society would try to help them, instead of leaving them to fend for themselves. (Someday, the one who needs a helping hand may be you, or someone you love. All it takes is a serious illness, an injury, a lay-off, or a death in the family.)
The conservative view
• People are responsible for themselves—and, given the chance, they’re capable of supporting themselves and their families. If the government makes a practice of providing for people (with welfare, for example), they become weak and dependent, and lose their will to work. Nothing could be more destructive to the health of our society.
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Just started to look over the article and thought this might be food for thought....

Immigration and world poverty.....

 
kaz said:
I hope this is one of those cases you are joking and don't give a hint about that
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No, I am not joking, because what is moral to me may not be moral to you. Do you believe we should force people not to have sex outside of marriage? Do you believe it is moral to use drugs?
Do you believe it is moral to make gross profits while overcharging people? Who defines morality? People believe abortion is immoral but it is legal. So I am not joking they are legitimate questions.
 
Rana said:
No, I am not joking, because what is moral to me may not be moral to you. Do you believe we should force people not to have sex outside of marriage? Do you believe it is moral to use drugs?
Do you believe it is moral to make gross profits while overcharging people? Who defines morality? People believe abortion is immoral but it is legal. So I am not joking they are legitimate questions.
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No shit, you are actually completely supporting my point then being snotty and asking me to defend the point I mocked as if I agree with their position. Why don't you go back and re-read the original point I made and turn off the filter that says anyone you hate must have made a point counter to yours. I'm a libertarian, dumb ass, not a conservative. My point was socially liberal. I mocked liberals, then I mocked conservatives. I wasn't agreewing with them. What is wrong with you? How can someone with your limited reading skills be a moderator?

Are you man enough to come back and say oops, you screwed up and read it wrong? I'm guessing no. Prove me wrong
 
kaz said:
No shit, you are actually completely supporting my point then being snotty and asking me to defend the point I mocked as if I agree with their position. Why don't you go back and re-read the original point I made and turn off the filter that says anyone you hate must have made a point counter to yours. I'm a libertarian, dumb ass, not a conservative. My point was socially liberal. I mocked liberals, then I mocked conservatives. I wasn't agreewing with them. What is wrong with you? How can someone with your limited reading skills be a moderator?

Are you man enough to come back and say oops, you screwed up and read it wrong? I'm guessing no. Prove me wrong
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Hear that whooshing sound, it is this conversation going way over your head
 
kaz said:
Liberal values are that people who need help should get help. Unfortunately it's not a liberal value to do that themselves.

Conservatives believe when you are moral that is free choice. When you are immoral, only then is force used to compel you to be moral.
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You can't coerce one to have the other and call it free choice. That's retarded. If you coerce morality from the immoral than its not free choice.
 
kaz said:
No shit, you are actually completely supporting my point then being snotty and asking me to defend the point I mocked as if I agree with their position. Why don't you go back and re-read the original point I made and turn off the filter that says anyone you hate must have made a point counter to yours. I'm a libertarian, dumb ass, not a conservative. My point was socially liberal. I mocked liberals, then I mocked conservatives. I wasn't agreewing with them. What is wrong with you? How can someone with your limited reading skills be a moderator?

Are you man enough to come back and say oops, you screwed up and read it wrong? I'm guessing no. Prove me wrong
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No I think she was saying what I am.
 
I read the article. Some of it I agree with, some of it I disagree with. Much of it I found to have somewhat invalid comparisons that tend to show a conservative bias (something of which the author of the article has been accused of in the past). So you have to take it with a grain of salt.

It will come as no surprise to those who remember me before someone tried to take me out with a car (I'm thinking it was probably that Unreasonable10), that I don't rely on the opinions of others to make up my own mind. Instead, I rely on my own experiences.

This is what I've found over the years:

In general, Liberals what tomorrow to be pretty much like today. They believe people should be able to live as they like within reason. Of course, there are the far-left extremists who want to push that hardcore "you-must-take-care-of-everyone-and-so-must-the-government-and-we-should-be-compassionate-when-considering-punishment-for-evil-bastards-like-baby-killers-and-pedophiles" who just make my fists itch. But by and large, I've found Liberals to be willing to live and let live, and want to help others less fortunate out of their own sense of compassion.

On the other side...

In general, Conservatives want tomorrow to be different than today. They want to have everyone in line, filtering into their formulae. If someone is poor, it is their own fault because they didn't work hard enough and thus don't deserve help. If they are unable to go to college or have a sub-standard education, it is their own fault because they didn't work hard enough and don't need help. They should (more often than not) be Christian and believe in Christian values - those of other religions are to be denigrated. Those who believe differently must be forced to change their opinions or be snuffed out of existence. The wealthy are better simply because they are wealthy, and the acquisition of wealth is rightly accomplished by standing on the backs of the poor, who do the actual work. There is no such thing as "less fortunate," there is merely "lazy." And of course, there are far-right extremists as well.

I will admit that living in a deeply "red" area, and as close as I am to D.C., that I tend to run in to fairly hard-right people with a higher frequency.

But those are my observations in dealing with both liberals and conservatives over the years. And both of them annoy the hell out of me.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's psychological projection 3D. I support a woman's right to choose within limits but the issue is like 378th on my list of priorites. If it wasn't for Catholics hardly anyone would give a rats ass about abortion. It's your holy grail.
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I have never understood the irony of Liberals who believe that abortion on demand, killing unborn babies, is just fine, BUT, executing a convicted brutal murderer abhorrent.
 
iolo said:
They want forced birth because it will produce more murder and sell more guns. Sickoes!
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There aren't words to describe the rampant stupidity you engage. Truly you are the most ignorant and repugnant leftist I have ever seen to spam a forum with pure unadulterated ignorance.

It’s morons like you that make me ponder my views on abortion and wish your mother had been intelligent enough to do it when you were in the womb.


moron.jpg
 
Jarod said:
When parents have fewer children, those children have a better chance of entering the upper classes, this is why the hierarchy opposes abortion and birth control.

Without control over how many children one has, more workers are created. A larger under class is created that can be subjected and exploited.
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moron.jpg
 
ZappasGuitar said:
You SAY you place a high value on the life of the innocent, but when was the last time you approached a woman thinking about having an abortion and offered to adopt the child?

Until you actually DO something other than talk...all you've got are words.
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Another idiot trying to win the Retard of the Year award.

moron.jpg
 
Stelakh said:
I read the article. Some of it I agree with, some of it I disagree with. Much of it I found to have somewhat invalid comparisons that tend to show a conservative bias (something of which the author of the article has been accused of in the past). So you have to take it with a grain of salt.

It will come as no surprise to those who remember me before someone tried to take me out with a car (I'm thinking it was probably that Unreasonable10), that I don't rely on the opinions of others to make up my own mind. Instead, I rely on my own experiences.

This is what I've found over the years:

In general, Liberals what tomorrow to be pretty much like today. They believe people should be able to live as they like within reason. Of course, there are the far-left extremists who want to push that hardcore "you-must-take-care-of-everyone-and-so-must-the-government-and-we-should-be-compassionate-when-considering-punishment-for-evil-bastards-like-baby-killers-and-pedophiles" who just make my fists itch. But by and large, I've found Liberals to be willing to live and let live, and want to help others less fortunate out of their own sense of compassion.

On the other side...

In general, Conservatives want tomorrow to be different than today. They want to have everyone in line, filtering into their formulae. If someone is poor, it is their own fault because they didn't work hard enough and thus don't deserve help. If they are unable to go to college or have a sub-standard education, it is their own fault because they didn't work hard enough and don't need help. They should (more often than not) be Christian and believe in Christian values - those of other religions are to be denigrated. Those who believe differently must be forced to change their opinions or be snuffed out of existence. The wealthy are better simply because they are wealthy, and the acquisition of wealth is rightly accomplished by standing on the backs of the poor, who do the actual work. There is no such thing as "less fortunate," there is merely "lazy." And of course, there are far-right extremists as well.

I will admit that living in a deeply "red" area, and as close as I am to D.C., that I tend to run in to fairly hard-right people with a higher frequency.

But those are my observations in dealing with both liberals and conservatives over the years. And both of them annoy the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

moron.jpg
 
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