Will The Overselling Of Global Warming Lead To A New Scientific Dark Age?

cancel2 2022

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Will the overselling of climate change lead to a new scientific dark age? That’s the question being posed in the latest issue of an Australian literary journal, Quadrant, by Garth Paltridge, one of the world’s most respected atmospheric scientists.

Paltridge was a Chief Research Scientist with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO). The latter is Australia’s equivalent of the National Science Foundation, our massive Federal Laboratory network, and all the governmental agency science branches rolled into one.

Paltridge lays out the well-known uncertainties in climate forecasting. These include our inability to properly simulate clouds that are anything like what we see in the real world, the embarrassing lack of average surface warming now in its 17th year, and the fumbling (and contradictory) attempts to explain it away.

While the politically correct name for the last 17 years is “the pause,” it’s much more like the P-wave, which reflects the crustal slippage that occurs before the shaking (and tsunami, if beneath the sea) of a catastrophic earthquake. Humans can’t feel them, but many animals can, which is why birds alight shortly before all hell breaks loose. Climate scientists have been profoundly defensive about the known problems. Paltridge elegantly explains that this has to be the case, and describes the likely horrific consequences when the day of reckoning finally arrives.

That day is coming closer, because, as Paltridge notes, people are catching on:
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“…the average man in the street, a sensible chap who by now can smell the signs of an oversold environmental campaign from miles away, is beginning to suspect that it is politics rather than science which is driving the issue.”
.
The scientific establishment has painted itself into a corner over global warming. Paltridge’s explanations for this are depressingly familiar to those who read these columns.

Science changed dramatically in the 1970s, when the reward structure in the profession began to revolve around the acquisition of massive amounts of taxpayer funding that was external to the normal budgets of the universities and federal laboratories. In climate science, this meant portraying the issue in dire terms, often in alliance with environmental advocacy organizations. Predictably, scientists (and their institutions) became addicted to the wealth, fame, and travel in the front of the airplane:
.
“A new and rewarding research lifestyle emerged which involved the giving of advice to all types and levels of government, the broadcasting of unchallengeable opinion to the general public, and easy justification for attendance at international conferences—this last in some luxury by normal scientific experience, and at a frequency previously unheard of.”
.
Every incentive reinforced this behavior, as the self-selected community of climate boffins now began to speak for both science and in the service of drastic regulatory policies. In the measured tones of the remarkably lucid and precise writer that he is, Paltridge explains how the corner got painted:

“The trap was fully sprung when many of the world’s major national academies of science (such as the Royal Society in the UK, the National Academy of Sciences in the USA and the Australian Academy of Science) persuaded themselves to issue reports giving support to the conclusions of the IPCC [the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change]. The reports were touted as national assessments that were supposedly independent of the IPCC and of each other, but of necessity were compiled with the assistance of, and in some cases at the behest of, many of the scientists involved in the IPCC international machinations. In effect, the academies, which are the most prestigious of the institutions of science, formally nailed their colours to the mast of the politically correct.

Since that time three or four years ago, there has been no comfortable way for the scientific community to raise the spectre of serious uncertainty about the forecasts of climatic disaster.”

Every year that elapses without a significant warming trend more and more erodes the credibility of not just climate science, but science in general:
.
“In the light of all this, we have at least to consider the possibility that the scientific establishment behind the global warming issue has been drawn into the trap of seriously overstating the climate problem—or, what is much the same thing, of seriously understating the uncertainties associated with the climate problem—in its effort to promote the cause. It is a particularly nasty trap in the context of science, because it risks destroying, perhaps for centuries to come, the unique and hard-won reputation for honesty which is the basis of society’s respect for scientific endeavour.” [emphasis added]
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This is the scariest part, and it is apparent that this unravelling has already begun. Serious scholars of science, like University of Montreal’s Daniele Fanelli, and Stanford’s John Iaonnadis are publishing quantitative analyses of the proliferation of scientific errors that is malignantly invading the profession because of, in part, the funding and reward model. When this “third rail” is actively being researched by people of such quality, it is apparent that the sickness of climate science is not just confined to climate science.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrick...al-warming-lead-to-a-new-scientific-dark-age/
 
When I was young, they said it would be global cooling that was a threat to mans existence. Then as an adult they said it was man caused global warming that would threaten mans existence. As I enter retirement they will probably proclaim global cooling once again.

One thing is sure; the politics behind such bullshit science will remain consistent and inane.

Only dunces can claim that man can singularly be the cause of earths warming that began with the steady retreat of ice sheets from North America before man existed.
 
Will the overselling of climate change lead to a new scientific dark age? That’s the question being posed in the latest issue of an Australian literary journal, Quadrant, by Garth Paltridge, one of the world’s most respected atmospheric scientists.

Paltridge was a Chief Research Scientist with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO). The latter is Australia’s equivalent of the National Science Foundation, our massive Federal Laboratory network, and all the governmental agency science branches rolled into one.

Paltridge lays out the well-known uncertainties in climate forecasting. These include our inability to properly simulate clouds that are anything like what we see in the real world, the embarrassing lack of average surface warming now in its 17th year, and the fumbling (and contradictory) attempts to explain it away.

While the politically correct name for the last 17 years is “the pause,” it’s much more like the P-wave, which reflects the crustal slippage that occurs before the shaking (and tsunami, if beneath the sea) of a catastrophic earthquake. Humans can’t feel them, but many animals can, which is why birds alight shortly before all hell breaks loose. Climate scientists have been profoundly defensive about the known problems. Paltridge elegantly explains that this has to be the case, and describes the likely horrific consequences when the day of reckoning finally arrives.

That day is coming closer, because, as Paltridge notes, people are catching on:
.
“…the average man in the street, a sensible chap who by now can smell the signs of an oversold environmental campaign from miles away, is beginning to suspect that it is politics rather than science which is driving the issue.”
.
The scientific establishment has painted itself into a corner over global warming. Paltridge’s explanations for this are depressingly familiar to those who read these columns.

Science changed dramatically in the 1970s, when the reward structure in the profession began to revolve around the acquisition of massive amounts of taxpayer funding that was external to the normal budgets of the universities and federal laboratories. In climate science, this meant portraying the issue in dire terms, often in alliance with environmental advocacy organizations. Predictably, scientists (and their institutions) became addicted to the wealth, fame, and travel in the front of the airplane:
.
“A new and rewarding research lifestyle emerged which involved the giving of advice to all types and levels of government, the broadcasting of unchallengeable opinion to the general public, and easy justification for attendance at international conferences—this last in some luxury by normal scientific experience, and at a frequency previously unheard of.”
.
Every incentive reinforced this behavior, as the self-selected community of climate boffins now began to speak for both science and in the service of drastic regulatory policies. In the measured tones of the remarkably lucid and precise writer that he is, Paltridge explains how the corner got painted:

“The trap was fully sprung when many of the world’s major national academies of science (such as the Royal Society in the UK, the National Academy of Sciences in the USA and the Australian Academy of Science) persuaded themselves to issue reports giving support to the conclusions of the IPCC [the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change]. The reports were touted as national assessments that were supposedly independent of the IPCC and of each other, but of necessity were compiled with the assistance of, and in some cases at the behest of, many of the scientists involved in the IPCC international machinations. In effect, the academies, which are the most prestigious of the institutions of science, formally nailed their colours to the mast of the politically correct.

Since that time three or four years ago, there has been no comfortable way for the scientific community to raise the spectre of serious uncertainty about the forecasts of climatic disaster.”

Every year that elapses without a significant warming trend more and more erodes the credibility of not just climate science, but science in general:
.
“In the light of all this, we have at least to consider the possibility that the scientific establishment behind the global warming issue has been drawn into the trap of seriously overstating the climate problem—or, what is much the same thing, of seriously understating the uncertainties associated with the climate problem—in its effort to promote the cause. It is a particularly nasty trap in the context of science, because it risks destroying, perhaps for centuries to come, the unique and hard-won reputation for honesty which is the basis of society’s respect for scientific endeavour.” [emphasis added]
.
This is the scariest part, and it is apparent that this unravelling has already begun. Serious scholars of science, like University of Montreal’s Daniele Fanelli, and Stanford’s John Iaonnadis are publishing quantitative analyses of the proliferation of scientific errors that is malignantly invading the profession because of, in part, the funding and reward model. When this “third rail” is actively being researched by people of such quality, it is apparent that the sickness of climate science is not just confined to climate science.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrick...al-warming-lead-to-a-new-scientific-dark-age/
Oh for the love of Pete Tom!

Give it up. Since when has Forbes become an expert on science?

The only thing that's threating the robust aquisition of scientific knowledge are those non-scientist or the anti-science/anti-intellectual crowd that feel threatened by the rapid expansion of human knowledge.

The only over selling I'm seeing of Climate Change science is that of the science deniers who wish to use outliers of evidence to try to undermine the vast body of knowledge supporting ACC and when they fail in that trying to undermine science itself in order to promote a political or economic agenda that has nothing what so ever to do with science other than that a scientific consensus conflicts with their economic/political agenda.

The science deniers of climate change wouldn't be such universal laughing stocks if they would just admit to their intellectual dishonesty and admit that their agenda is a politcal/economic agenda. Then at least you would have some credibility as the economic and political concerns are legitimate ones but this incessent attempts to deny reality based on other agendas using outliers of scientific data is just laughable.
 
Oh for the love of Pete Tom!

Give it up. Since when has Forbes become an expert on science?

The only thing that's threating the robust aquisition of scientific knowledge are those non-scientist or the anti-science/anti-intellectual crowd that feel threatened by the rapid expansion of human knowledge.

The only over selling I'm seeing of Climate Change science is that of the science deniers who wish to use outliers of evidence to try to undermine the vast body of knowledge supporting ACC and when they fail in that trying to undermine science itself in order to promote a political or economic agenda that has nothing what so ever to do with science other than that a scientific consensus conflicts with their economic/political agenda.

The science deniers of climate change wouldn't be such universal laughing stocks if they would just admit to their intellectual dishonesty and admit that their agenda is a politcal/economic agenda. Then at least you would have some credibility as the economic and political concerns are legitimate ones but this incessent attempts to deny reality based on other agendas using outliers of scientific data is just laughable.

Forbes is quoting the words of Garth Paltridge, one of the world’s most respected atmospheric scientists. I had this stuff with you for a long time Mott, you used to ask where is the peer reviewed research and I then presented you with dozens and dozens of papers. Now you've gone back to the old mantra saying they are all in the pocket of Big Oil, Big Coal...etc.

I notice that you've never attempted to explain what has happened to all the heat for the last 17 years. You at least ought to stay objective and admit that the science is far from settled and not come up with spurious bogus arguments. I am more than willing to admit that there is a possibility of a 1.2C rise in temperature for a doubling of CO2 concentration but I see absolutely no empirical evidence to support all the positive feedbacks that have been proposed and modelled.
 
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the science is sound
the alarmism is the problem
anthropogenic sources add minscule amount to the equation.
I agree that there is a certain degree of alarmism but the real source of the problem for this issue is the discconnect between those who benefit economically from the production and consumption of fossil fuels and those who are impacted by the results of pollution. Another part of the problem is that the anti ACC clique seems to think that this is an issue in vacuo. ACC is just one very significant aspect, one with potential grave long term consequence, of a much broader issue of pollution from the consumption of fossil fuels. You also have the huge issues of ecological impact (e.g. acid rain), health and safety impact (an estimated 2 million lives are cut short every year do to air pollution), the impact on public infrastructure (ever wonder how many billions of dollars are paid to repair and replace public infrastructure from the damage of these air pollutants?).

In addition it's hardly a miniscule problem. The US, China, India and Europe burn around 21 billion tons (42 trillion pounds) of coal per year. International consumption is around 30 billion tons (60 trillion pounds) per year most of which goes up that stack when burned. That's just one point source coal. Given coals noteriety of being an extremely filthy fossil fuel and it's correalation to not just ACC but acid rain, public health from VOC's and particulate emmisions, the ecological impact, cost of the damage it does to public infrastructure, etc, etc.

Now I agree that not enough is now known about the science of climate change to develop cost affective solution that will trascend political barriers, as well as, geographical borders but some of this is just plain common sense such as reducing coal usage for energy production.

Coal represents about 37% of US energy production but represent nearly 75% of the pollution emmisions from energy production. If these coal plants were to be replaced by natural gas plants (and we sit on top of vast lakes of natural gas) we could literally reduce energy production emmisions in half! Given all the benefits to be gained, of which decreasing green house gases is just one of many, why wouldn't we persue this route? Also considering that we are making advances in other technologies that produce a fraction of the pollution, such as nuclear, hydro-eletric, wind and solar, etc, it's just common sense that we replace something as harmfull as some of these extremely filthy fossil fuels like coal and tar sands oil (bituminous oil).

In that sense, The ACC issue is not really any different than the acid rain issue of around 20 to 30 years ago where the States the produced coal and used it widely to generate electricity were causing serious damage down wind to other regions in the North East US and Canada. When legislation was promulgated to limit acid gas emisisions you had the same fossil fuel lobbyist trying to undermine the science as you do today with greenhouse gases and ACC. It wasn't till the States that were down wind and being damaged by acid gas pollution (i.e. acid rain) sued the coal producing and coal power generating States in Federal court and won that you began to see comprehensive change to coal emmision standards for acid gases.

But that is, in a nut shell, what really makes this such a frustratingly complex issues is that those who are benefiting the most from the development and commercial use of some of these very dirty fossil fuels are not the same people who are paying the price for the negative consequences of their consumption. It's a serious problem and getting people to see common ground, considering the vested interests involed is nigh unto impossible!

Which is why I find this inane attempt by those with political and economic vested interests to undermine the well substantiated science of ACC by parsing the outliers of data is not only just plain goofy, it's damned foolish too.
 
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Forbes is quoting the words of Garth Paltridge, one of the world’s most respected atmospheric scientists. I had this stuff with you for a long time Mott, you used to ask where is the peer reviewed research and I then presented you with dozens and dozens of papers. Now you've gone back to the old mantra saying they are all in the pocket of Big Oil, Big Coal...etc.

I notice that you've never attempted to explain what has happened to all the heat for the last 17 years. You at least ought to stay objective and admit that the science is far from settled and not come up with spurious bogus arguments. I am more than willing to admit that there is a possibility of a 1.2C rise in temperature for a doubling of CO2 concentration but I see absolutely no empirical evidence to support all the positive feedbacks that have been proposed and modelled.
That's because I've rarely ever involved myself in the discussions on this topic on JPP knowing that those who are in opposition to the data supporting ACC have mostly made up their minds and I'm not really interested in parsing the data to reinforce my own convictions nor do I think there is anything I can say that would change their minds. All I know is that this a mind boggling interconnected complex issue that transcends science into the realm of politics, economics and public policies at an international level.
 
Another good example of how complex or how people do not understand the issues is the recent State Department report that the Keystone pipeline wouldn't pose a significant environmental risk to the US. That's because the vast over whelming majority of the pollution is being discharged in Canada and Canada has made it quite clear that tar sands oil production will continue with or with out a Keystone pipeline and there is very little that the US can do about that. They'll build more rail roads and transport it to the Pacific Coast if they have too.
 
The only thing that's threating the robust aquisition of scientific knowledge are those non-scientist or the anti-science/anti-intellectual crowd that feel threatened by the rapid expansion of human knowledge.

LMAO... no, what is threatening the advancement of science is the fear mongers that are proclaiming consensus, calling people 'deniers' if they disagree, pretending the issue of man's role in climate change is settled and then ignoring all data that contradicts their POLITICAL position.

The only over selling I'm seeing of Climate Change science is that of the science deniers who wish to use outliers of evidence to try to undermine the vast body of knowledge supporting ACC and when they fail in that trying to undermine science itself in order to promote a political or economic agenda that has nothing what so ever to do with science other than that a scientific consensus conflicts with their economic/political agenda.

Oh look, here we have the scientist Mutt using the term 'denier'. A real scientist would not try to label opponents in such a manner. A real scientist would be able to show the data that shows opponents are wrong. But the fear mongers don't do this. Instead they run around screaming 'science denier!!!'.

The pure comedy is that Mutt then pretends it is the 'science deniers' that try to use outlier events to undermine AGW (note how mutt changed it now to ACC?). Here in reality, it is the fear mongers trying to push forward their political and economic agenda that use a hurricane, snow storm, etc... to 'prove weather is getting more extreme'.

The science deniers of climate change wouldn't be such universal laughing stocks if they would just admit to their intellectual dishonesty and admit that their agenda is a politcal/economic agenda. Then at least you would have some credibility as the economic and political concerns are legitimate ones but this incessent attempts to deny reality based on other agendas using outliers of scientific data is just laughable.

Mutt again proves he is not interested in the actual science of this issue. He ignores the data and parrots the line. To pretend the fear mongers are not pursuing a political and economic agenda is pure nonsense. Obviously those who look at the actual data have an economic goal as well. We don't want to cripple our economies based on BAD SCIENCE. On the political AGENDA of idiots like Gore and the 'scientists' WHOSE VERY FUNDING IS RELIANT UPON THEIR STATING A CRISIS EXISTS.
 
That's because I've rarely ever involved myself in the discussions on this topic on JPP knowing that those who are in opposition to the data supporting ACC have mostly made up their minds and I'm not really interested in parsing the data to reinforce my own convictions nor do I think there is anything I can say that would change their minds. All I know is that this a mind boggling interconnected complex issue that transcends science into the realm of politics, economics and public policies at an international level.

More like because you know the data does NOT support your position, which is why we don't see any data coming from the fear mongers any more... just more shouts of 'science denier'.
 
That's because I've rarely ever involved myself in the discussions on this topic on JPP knowing that those who are in opposition to the data supporting ACC have mostly made up their minds and I'm not really interested in parsing the data to reinforce my own convictions nor do I think there is anything I can say that would change their minds. All I know is that this a mind boggling interconnected complex issue that transcends science into the realm of politics, economics and public policies at an international level.

So where is all the data that supports all the proposed positive feedbacks. The fact is there isn't any it is all in climate models. I am a sceptic which anyone with a scientific bent should be, it all boils done to falsifiability. Argument from authority is the first line of defence for many people. You should understand the asymmetry between proposing a theory and refuting one. To propose a theory about climate you need to cobble together a vast number of different disciplines and produce a consistent result. To destroy such a theory you can be as ignorant as you like about most of the theory but simply be able to produce a single flaw, this is the principle of falsifiability. You could say to me that all swans are white, yet it is logically possible to falsify it by simply observing a single black swan.

Aristotle claimed objects fall with a speed proportional to their weight. This was accepted for nearly two thousand years until Galileo disproved it with a simple experiment. Anyone could do the experiment, so why did the world believe Aristotle for so long? I assume it’s the “taboo” of arguing with the authority. Even Galileo got himself into trouble with the authority of the Catholic Church, and it took them 500 years to admit Galileo was right.


Oh and here the temp graph from 1997, where has the heat gone?

article-2217286-157E3ADF000005DC-561_644x358.jpg
 
More like because you know the data does NOT support your position, which is why we don't see any data coming from the fear mongers any more... just more shouts of 'science denier'.
Unlike you I'm willing to evaluate all sources of data on the issue but unlike you I'm a professional in the environmental field and not a neophyte and I see the points of views of most of the stake holders on this issue. I'm not so arrogant as to think my point of view is the only correct point of view or that I have all the answers. If you can't see the broader picture on the interconnectedness of this issue or the disconnect that those who have vested interest have, on both sides of the equation, than that's just further evidence that your comments are the uninformed ramblings of a neophyte.
 
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So where is all this data that supports all the positive feedbacks, the fact is there isn't any it is all in climate models? I am a sceptic which anyone with a scientific bent should be, it all boils done to Falsifiability.

Argument from authority is the first line of defence for many people. You need to understand the asymmetry between proposing a theory and refuting one. To propose a theory about climate you need to cobble together a vast number of different disciplines and produce a consistent result. To destroy such a theory you can be as ignorant as you like about most of the theory but simply be able to produce a single flaw, this is the principle of falsifiability. You could say to me that all swans are white, yet it is logically possible to falsify it by simply observing a single black swan.

Aristotle claimed objects fall with a speed proportional to their weight. This was accepted for nearly two thousand years until Galileo disproved it with a simple experiment. Anyone could do the experiment, so why did the world believe Aristotle for so long? I assume it’s the “taboo” of arguing with the authority. Even Galileo got himself into trouble with the authority of the Catholic Church, and it took them 500 years to admit Galileo was right.


Oh and here the temp graph from 1997, where has the heat gone?

article-2217286-157E3ADF000005DC-561_644x358.jpg
Tom, I'm not about to get in a pissing contest with you on this. It's why I rarely post on this topic. I can post 10 peer reviewed counterpoints to each point you make and I'll never convnce you of the general consensus of ACC and in the larger sense, I'm not really interested in trying to do so. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe.
 
Tom, I'm not about to get in a pissing contest with you on this. It's why I rarely post on this topic. I can post 10 peer reviewed counterpoints to each point you make and I'll never convnce you of the general consensus of ACC and in the larger sense, I'm not really interested in trying to do so. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe.

Fine I have no problem with that. I am more than willing to be presented with incontrovertible evidence of AGW but I haven't seen it so far. As I say most sceptics accept a figure of 1.2C for a doubling of CO2 concentration but not all the bogus feedback mechanisms. I might also point the forcing effect of CO2 attenuates as the concentration get higher.
 
Unlike you I'm willing to evaluate all sources of data on the issue but unlike you I'm a professional in the environmental field and not a neophyte and I see the points of views of most of the stake holders on this issue. I'm not so arrogant as to think my point of view is the only correct point of view or that I have all the answers. If you can't see the broader picture on the interconnectedness of this issue or the disconnect that those who have vested interest have, on both sides of the equation, than that's just further evidence that your comments are the uninformed ramblings of a neophyte.

Complete bullshit mutt. I will read any source or look at any data you put forth. But you don't. You on the other hand dismiss any evidence against AGW with the shout of 'science denier'. I could care less what your field of expertise is... NO real scientist would run around shouting 'science denier' as you have done.

You continue pretending it is those that QUESTION the religion of AGW that have a 'vested interest'.

Do you deny that the scientists promoting the AGW theory have a vested interest in it? Do they not receive funding because they present a case for alarm?

If they came out and said, 'man is having an effect on the climate change, but it is not substantial'... what would happen to their government funding Mutt?

Can you answer those questions Mutt? Or will you run away from them.

And AGAIN... please link us up to the data that you think still supports the AGW theory. Show us the computer models that have been correct.
 
Tom, I'm not about to get in a pissing contest with you on this. It's why I rarely post on this topic. I can post 10 peer reviewed counterpoints to each point you make and I'll never convnce you of the general consensus of ACC and in the larger sense, I'm not really interested in trying to do so. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe.

You keep saying you can produce data showing that we are wrong... yet you continue to refuse to do so... you act as if you have no interest in it, but then spend time screaming 'science denier' in such threads. Why is that Mutt? Why not just show us your data?
 
Questions for Mutt the scientist to answer... just putting them all in one post...

If MAN is the primary driver of climate change AND CO2 is the greenhouse gas they blame the most for warming, then explain HOW the earth has not continued getting warmer for the better part of two DECADES, despite continuing increases in CO2 emissions?

Do you deny that the scientists promoting the AGW theory have a vested interest in it? Do they not receive funding because they present a case for alarm?

If they came out and said, 'man is having an effect on the climate change, but it is not substantial'... what would happen to their government funding Mutt?
 
Questions for Mutt the scientist to answer... just putting them all in one post...

If MAN is the primary driver of climate change AND CO2 is the greenhouse gas they blame the most for warming, then explain HOW the earth has not continued getting warmer for the better part of two DECADES, despite continuing increases in CO2 emissions?

Do you deny that the scientists promoting the AGW theory have a vested interest in it? Do they not receive funding because they present a case for alarm?

If they came out and said, 'man is having an effect on the climate change, but it is not substantial'... what would happen to their government funding Mutt?

I'll play alarmist!

1) Simple! Natural signal is masking the anthropogenic signal. When the natural forcing swings back you better watch out!

2)Of course they recieve funding from the government. There's no profit in saving the planet.

3)It would still require solutions!! Why do you hate the environment?
 
Will the overselling of climate change lead to a new scientific dark age? ....
I think that's a bit of an oversell itself, Tom...

Actually I think that people will start to look at scientists with as much suspicion as any other field.
 
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