ACA going into full effect, needs fixes badly, how will it happen?

I Love America said:
Please stop with the phony premise. I never said it wasn't A proposal, I am sure that bills introducing Medicare for All have been around for a long time. But, the fact remains that it was never a SERIOUS proposal that was talked about and you know that. Could it have passed? We will never know. You believe it would, I am saying I don't know. The bottom line is that Obama is as committed to single payor as you are. He obviously sees the political landscape much clearer than you do. The American people were not ready for that kind of drastic change. If you believe it you are as guilty of cognitive dissonance as you accuse others.

Will we get there in the end? Probably. Obamacare is the transition. It was not designed to work. It was designed to crash the system, cause chaos and keep people in crisis mode. Your lack of patience does not change the end game. While I don't agree with single payor, I can see the writing on the wall that it is the direction we are headed.
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"Not once was the subject of Medicare for all seriously discussed. Sure guys like Kucinich floated the idea, but it was never a serious proposal. So to claim that it would have been "easy" is not accurate."

"The point is that it was never a serious proposal. EVER.

HR676 and S703 demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. Not only were they seriously discussed proposals, they had been crafted into legislation.

If you're not going to stand up for what you've said when proved to be wrong .. I'm going to drop out of this conversation with you.
 
blackascoal said:
You can misread the stats however you choose .. but healthcare was a higher priority for Americans than the economy, gas prices, and terrorism. ONLY the debacle of Iraq was higher.

Even republicans were forced to address the DEMAND for healthcare reform.

You can save your soliloquy about 'statists' .. not interested.
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BAC, you are being stubborn which I can understand, but don't sit here talking about how you are devoted to the truth when you are blindly ignoring it. If 83% of the people are happy with the healthcare they receive which is what Gallup polled, where is the pent up concern for healthcare reform? It just wasn't there. It was ginned up. You know how it was ginned up? All of the stories about infamous "47 million uninsured" which was always a bogus statistic. It wasn't because people themselves thought they were getting shitty healthcare.

As far as the GOP being forced to address it, they always fall for the democrats bullshit and accept the democrats premise. Don't use the GOP to defend your untenable position.

There are stubborn facts that you refuse to acknowledge.

1) The American people were happy with their healthcare. Polls showed that
2) There was no serious effort to push Medicare for all
3) Obama is as committed to single payor as you are. Just listen to his words

Now, I have proven all of these things. If you choose to ignore them that is up to you. But, don't claim you are beholden to the truth and expect me to believe it. You merely show yourself to be as guilty of cognitive dissonance as anyone else.

The only thing you seem to be upset about is that you didn't get single payor as fast as you wanted it. I think we can both agree that single payor is the eventual path we are on. So essentially you are getting your way, just not as fast as you want it. To that I say get over yourself.
 
evince said:
I doubt it.


I would think there would still be a need for represnting people in the negociations between the gov and the contracted provider
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That's not what I do, I would be put out of business in the sense that I would not be able to do what I do now, there would not be a need. I would not be put out of business in the sense that I could for sure find another type of work.
 
I Love America said:
BAC, you are being stubborn which I can understand, but don't sit here talking about how you are devoted to the truth when you are blindly ignoring it. If 83% of the people are happy with the healthcare they receive which is what Gallup polled, where is the pent up concern for healthcare reform? It just wasn't there. It was ginned up. You know how it was ginned up? All of the stories about infamous "47 million uninsured" which was always a bogus statistic. It wasn't because people themselves thought they were getting shitty healthcare.

As far as the GOP being forced to address it, they always fall for the democrats bullshit and accept the democrats premise. Don't use the GOP to defend your untenable position.

There are stubborn facts that you refuse to acknowledge.

1) The American people were happy with their healthcare. Polls showed that
2) There was no serious effort to push Medicare for all
3) Obama is as committed to single payor as you are. Just listen to his words

Now, I have proven all of these things. If you choose to ignore them that is up to you. But, don't claim you are beholden to the truth and expect me to believe it. You merely show yourself to be as guilty of cognitive dissonance as anyone else.

The only thing you seem to be upset about is that you didn't get single payor as fast as you wanted it. I think we can both agree that single payor is the eventual path we are on. So essentially you are getting your way, just not as fast as you want it. To that I say get over yourself.
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I can't help you brother.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
 
blackascoal said:
"Not once was the subject of Medicare for all seriously discussed. Sure guys like Kucinich floated the idea, but it was never a serious proposal. So to claim that it would have been "easy" is not accurate."

"The point is that it was never a serious proposal. EVER.

HR676 and S703 demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about. Not only were they seriously discussed proposals, they had been crafted into legislation.

If you're not going to stand up for what you've said when proved to be wrong .. I'm going to drop out of this conversation with you.
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You are either not understanding what I am saying or you are deliberately ignoring it. I will make another attempt.

When I say SERIOUSLY discussed, I mean SERIOUSLY discussed. I don't deny that a bill was put forth. Lots of bills are put forth in the House and Senate, but not all of them are SERIOUSLY discussed. Want proof?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1218
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h2034/show
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/109-h4683/show

These are just three other instances where "Medicare For All" were put forth as bills. My point is not to argue that there weren't bills put forth, there obviously were and I AM NOT DENYING IT.

My point is that they were never seriously put forth in front of the American people as options. Submitting bills into Congress is not the same as having them seriously discussed with the American people. Now, if you can show me YouTubes of Meet The Press or Face the Nation or CSPAN where this was seriously debated and captured the attention of the American people then I will happily concede. I don't ever remember this coming up for debate in a way that was discussed nationally. Let me try another way. What percentage of Americans knew that Medicare for All was a proposal? I would suspect very few. That is my point when I say it wasn't seriously discussed. I am not saying that nobody brought it up, they obviously did.

Do you understand my distinction? If not, then you are correct there is no point continuing on.
 
I Love America said:
BAC, you are being stubborn which I can understand, but don't sit here talking about how you are devoted to the truth when you are blindly ignoring it. If 83% of the people are happy with the healthcare they receive which is what Gallup polled, where is the pent up concern for healthcare reform? It just wasn't there. It was ginned up. You know how it was ginned up? All of the stories about infamous "47 million uninsured" which was always a bogus statistic. It wasn't because people themselves thought they were getting shitty healthcare.

As far as the GOP being forced to address it, they always fall for the democrats bullshit and accept the democrats premise. Don't use the GOP to defend your untenable position.

There are stubborn facts that you refuse to acknowledge.

1) The American people were happy with their healthcare. Polls showed that
2) There was no serious effort to push Medicare for all
3) Obama is as committed to single payor as you are. Just listen to his words
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Sigh. I just read through five pages of posts.

1) The same Gallup poll that said Romney was going to win by 7pts?

2) ITS NOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF HEALTH CARE...IT'S ABOUT THE COST OF THE FUCKING HEALTH CARE. Jesus Christ, how fucking dense are you all?


An MRI in Japan costs $100. Why? Because their government sets the costs of every medical procedure each year. And nobody goes broke because of medical bills.
 
Jarod said:
Im seriously proposing it.
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It has already been proposed and seriously discussed .. it has 43 co-sponsors.

The Expanded & Improved Medicare For All Act (H.R. 676)
http://www.pnhp.org/publications/united-states-national-health-care-act-hr-676

Experts debate all-payer setups vs. Medicare for all
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-vs-medicare-for-all-88835.html#ixzz2Ugzf6Z00

The Top Ten Actions You CAN Take To Promote Medicare for All!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/...ions-You-CAN-Take-To-Promote-Medicare-for-All
 
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Sierra said:
Sigh. I just read through five pages of posts.

1) The same Gallup poll that said Romney was going to win by 7pts?

2) ITS NOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF HEALTH CARE...IT'S ABOUT THE COST OF THE FUCKING HEALTH CARE. Jesus Christ, how fucking dense are you all?


An MRI in Japan costs $100. Why? Because their government sets the costs of every medical procedure each year. And nobody goes broke because of medical bills.
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Actually, the poll asked them about their healthcare coverage as well aka COSTS. Do you even read? The Romney comment is just a non sequitor designed to dismiss the poll you don't like. Nice try though.

You are confused. The government cannot set "costs". The government can set "prices". They are not the same.
 
Obamacare is working in California

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...e-insurance-exchange-announces-premium-rates/

Yesterday, Covered California—the name given to the healthcare exchange created pursuant to the Affordable Care Act that will serve the largest population of insured citizens in the nation—released the premium rates submitted by participating health insurance companies for the four health insurance program categories (bronze, silver, gold and platinum) established by the Affordable Care Act, along with the catastrophic policy created for and available to those under the age of 30.

Upon reviewing the data, I was indeed shocked by the proposed premium rates—but not in the way you might expect. The jolt that I was experiencing was not the result of the predicted out-of-control premium costs but the shock of rates far lower than what I expected—even at the lowest end of the age scale.
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We will show you how it's done.

ps. Our Moonbeam Democratic Governor and our Democratic Supermajority in the state legislature just gave us a budget surplus. Time and time again, it's the Democrats that prove themselves to be fiscally responsible, despite the overwhelming lie perpetuated that all we do is spend. It's a fucking lie. We are the responsible party. We create more jobs and the stock market does way better. Why? Because Democrats actually tend to care about people. That's what it comes down to and our results reflect this when we are not being obstructed.
 
I Love America said:
Actually, the poll asked them about their healthcare coverage as well aka COSTS. Do you even read? The Romney comment is just a non sequitor designed to dismiss the poll you don't like. Nice try though.

You are confused. The government cannot set "costs". The government can set "prices". They are not the same.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/interviews/ikegami.html

Thinking people:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
 
The question I have for those who do support Obamacare is what now?

How can it be fixed .. can it be fixed?

How is it going to get properly funded when they are already running short on funding?
 
blackascoal said:
Then why are you attempting to lecture me on what's wrong with Obamacare?

I don't support it .. I never have.
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I'm lecturing you that the voters don't like socialism lite, because they don't like socialism period. You state that ObamaCare has been damaging to the GOP but the reality is that it has energized our base. By all means, please, please keep at it, and try to turn ObamaCare into a single payer utopia. It will help destroy the Democrat Party further.
 
DamnYankee said:
It wasn't socialist enough and you want a single payer.
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I truly respect BAC as unlike many here left or right, he takes principled stands and doesn't let blind partisanship blind him. However, on this issue, he is not able to see the forest through the trees. There is really no way Obama could have taken us from where we were to single payor. The demand just wasn't there. Even if he had, he could not leave any vestige of private insurance companies to go back to when single payor inevitably failed.

Whether you agree with Obamacare or not, Obama was shrewd in how he approached even if it was borderline illegal and definitely unethical. He first has to completely trash and dismantle the current system in order to create a crisis for people to finally scream for single payor.

That the insurance companies were in on the drafting is irrelevant. They merely were played like everyone else thinking they "had a seat at the table", but in the end they are fucked. As much as I hate to admit it, we are much closer to BACs vision than mine. It is stunning to me why he can't take yes for an answer.
 
Government already has too much power and taxes too high. Health care is a personal matter. Repeal Obamacare and impeach the Obama. That's what We The People want.
 
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