Minimum Wage Hike

[Cancel 2016.2]

And when it fell apart how many said it would last a minimum of five years and more likely at least 10?

The bear market? I certainly did. I still believe that. You understand what a bear market is?

1) Where is the money that was supposedly repaid from TARP?
2) We are still projected to outspend revenue by an average of $700B per year for the next ten years
3) We have major problems with medicare and to a lesser degree social security in terms of funding that will only be highlighted further as more boomers retire.
4) Banks are still taking on excessive risks and now they are even bigger than they were before being deemed to big to fail
5) GDP growth has been anemic
6) Unemployment remains very high with no end in sight

yeah... I am pretty sure we have some major speed bumps to hurdle prior to a true economic recovery.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Highly skilled labor at $15/hr? Jesus Christ you are out of touch.

My god douchbag... I was using numbers as an example... you can put them initially where ever you want. Then run the numbers. I tried to keep them low so that you could still do the math.

Dude, I don't really care. I'm on the opposite side of the aisle from you. You can go ahead and think what you want but I'm telling you, from a strategic standpoint, you're position is a loser...... but you're more than welcome to stick with it.

which is precisely what I stated. All you care about is the partisan bullshit. You could care less whether or not it actually helps anyone or not.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Yes....well like I said....I haven't seen all sorts of women, youths, Hispanics and Blacks charging over here to help you defend your point of view. The only one who has is Wacko.....and he's another pasty assed chamber of commerce type white guy with a $12 haircut!

Mott I love it! Pasty assed chamber of commerce guys! You must know some? I hate those guys.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Highly skilled labor at $15/hr? Jesus Christ you are out of touch.

Dude, I don't really care. I'm on the opposite side of the aisle from you. You can go ahead and think what you want but I'm telling you, from a strategic standpoint, your position is a loser...... but you're more than welcome to stick with it. In fact I encourage you too!

I told him the same thing about women's issues before the election. He called me a fucking moron

You see how that turned out for him don't you?

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I fully admit that DH knows way more than I do about the p
policy details. Of pretty much any policy. The funny thing is he so obviously knows way more then SF too. Well I think I know more than SF does so that DH does goes without saying. But anyway SF Will never admit it. Maybe he doesn't even recognize it. Sf is definitely one of those guys who wouldn't.

Anyway, I can't say I'm ever sorry to see DH here.

 

[zappasguitar]

So SF shits on a citation to Krugman while relying on a "study" by Employment Policies Institute? Yikes.

It's one of the basic tenets of Tightie Rightie Debate:

"Do as I say and NOT as I do..."

He's allowed to post citations from wherever he likes, but others citations must meet his standards or they are no good.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I fully admit that DH knows way more than I do about the p
policy details. Of pretty much any policy. The funny thing is he so obviously knows way more then SF too. Well I think I know more than SF does so that DH does goes without saying. But anyway SF Will never admit it. Maybe he doesn't even recognize it. Sf is definitely one of those guys who wouldn't.

Anyway, I can't say I'm ever sorry to see DH here.

yes, he so obviously knows more on economics than me... he has clearly shown that in this thread with his vast discussion on the issue including gems like...

'I don't see the problem with someone having to pay the increase'

Pure genius.

 

[zappasguitar]

but almost 1/2 are over 25....

And many many more just make a dollar or 2 over minimum wage.

SHUSH!

You're going to destroy their latest talking point!

 

[cawacko]

I fully admit that DH knows way more than I do about the p
policy details. Of pretty much any policy. The funny thing is he so obviously knows way more then SF too. Well I think I know more than SF does so that DH does goes without saying. But anyway SF Will never admit it. Maybe he doesn't even recognize it. Sf is definitely one of those guys who wouldn't.

Anyway, I can't say I'm ever sorry to see DH here.

There's no question Dung is a smart guy. He's obviously very knowledgable on public policy, the (inside) workings of Congress etc. But that doesn't mean he's right on all issues.

I'll give my old man as an example. He has a PhD in Economics and Real Estate Finance. He was a graduate school professor at multiple Universities. He's a smart dude. That still doesn't make him right on all economic issues.

I don't find it surprising that in partisan politics we tend to think those who believe what we do to be smarter than those who don't believe what we do.

 

[zappasguitar]

It is the above mindset that needs to be changed. Minimum wage jobs are not supposed to pay enough for a person to fully support themselves. They are jobs for the unskilled. The majority of whom are under 25.

Why aren't minimum wage jobs supposed to pay enough to fully support a person? Why don't the unskilled deserve to fully support themselves? What have you got against the unskilled?

The rise in minimum wage in the past hasn't changed the fact that they can't live off of it alone. If you pay the unskilled at a level they can support themselves, then:

1) What is the motivation to obtain a skill set?

Oh, I don't know...maybe the desire to make MORE than the minimum wage?

2) What do you pay those that develop a skill set?

MORE than the minimum wage...

3) If the unskilled get a raise, what do you suppose the skilled workers will want?

It doesn't matter what they want.

4) If the raises start working up the skill set chain... what happens to the overall costs of goods?

Raises won't start working up the skill set if owners explain to employees that raising the minimum wage is MANDATED by law and if there's a problem, take it up with Washington.

I used to work as a butcher back in the day and that is the exact excuse I got when minimum wage went up. The obss told everyone he HAD to raise minimum wage pay rate but others were SOL and we could leave if we wanted...oddly, no one did...we sucked it up and eealt with it.

You see, it is a circular problem. That is why the mindset needs to change. No increase in the minimum wage will ever be enough for a person to fully support themselves.

No it's not...you're just trying to MAKE it one.

 

[zappasguitar]

You need to understand the economics of the issue. Raising the minimum wage does nothing to help those in poverty. Nothing. You simply raise the wage scale from unskilled on up to the point that costs of goods sold also increase.

Oh no...raising the minimum wage only puts more money in the pockets of those in poverty...no help whatsoever.

But as I pointed out, the entire wage scale doesn't have to increase.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Why aren't minimum wage jobs supposed to pay enough to fully support a person? Why don't the unskilled deserve to fully support themselves? What have you got against the unskilled?

Because minimum wage jobs are designed for teens, young adults (predominantly college age) and part time workers. They are not designed for someone to live off of on its own.

Oh, I don't know...maybe the desire to make MORE than the minimum wage?

well then wouldn't they have that same motivation regardless of whether or not you raise the minimum wage? You realize the higher the minimum goes, the more of a disincentive it becomes?

MORE than the minimum wage...

precisely... which is why if you raise the minimum wage for the unskilled, the skilled will want more as well to compensate for their skill set.

It doesn't matter what they want.

yet you JUST stated they should be paid more than the minimum wage. You couldn't even go two sentences without contradicting yourself.

Raises won't start working up the skill set if owners explain to employees that raising the minimum wage is MANDATED by law and if there's a problem, take it up with Washington.

roflmao... wow... now you have just gone completely absurd.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Oh no...raising the minimum wage only puts more money in the pockets of those in poverty...no help whatsoever.

But as I pointed out, the entire wage scale doesn't have to increase.

But the entire wage scale does increase. That is why despite raises to minimum wage in the past, poverty persists. There will always be a poverty line. No matter how much you raise the minimum wage that will always be the case.

Again... take Krugmans article... he states there would be problems if the minimum wage went to $20... yet he doesn't distinguish why. It is the same line of thought, just a greater magnitude. The economics of it don't change. Just the severity of the reaction.

Mutt is right about one thing... to the left this is entirely a political issue. It is not an economic one for them.

Putting more money in the hands of those in poverty only works if the purchasing power of each dollar remains the same.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Mott I love it! Pasty assed chamber of commerce guys! You must know some? I hate those guys.

LOL I used to be one. They're composed mostly of middle class small business men and merchants who are almost utterly lacking in imagination or empathy and pretty much can only see the world from their point of view. If the Chamber of commerce had it's way any attorney who ever litigated a civil suit would be summarily executed and they would have a maximum wage of $0.10/day so that no employee could earn more than that. As a networking clique it's a pretty good community organization to belong too if you enjoy being active in community affairs and development but their typical member usually has pretty reactionary political views.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I fully admit that DH knows way more than I do about the p
policy details. Of pretty much any policy. The funny thing is he so obviously knows way more then SF too. Well I think I know more than SF does so that DH does goes without saying. But anyway SF Will never admit it. Maybe he doesn't even recognize it. Sf is definitely one of those guys who wouldn't.

Anyway, I can't say I'm ever sorry to see DH here.

I dunno......he fuckng smells awful!!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I told him the same thing about women's issues before the election. He called me a fucking moron

You see how that turned out for him don't you?

Word. It's funny though. After the November election you hear Republicans talk about how they need to reach out to Women, youths, Blacks & Hispanics......and then they blow it. They just can't seem to get their head around anything but your average white guy.

 

[Phantasmal]

Again, dear little Super...I ask for some evidence to corroborate your feelings about Krugman, and once more your inability to come up with a more substantive answer than "well you don't read his articles. Anyone who does understands he is a partisan hack" highlights how unable you are to counter his claims with anything other than your feelings.



Because you have yet to satisfactorily answer several questions.



Typical...you of course are allowed to make ridiculous claims over and over and provide no data to back up your assertions, but I am again expected to immediately provide corroboration for my claims.



Wow...resorting to that old Rightie trick of repeating a lie over and over until everyone believes it? Im afraid it isn't going to work no matter how many times you lie and claim I haven't read the article.

You are clearly acting on your feelings and making patently outrageous, completely unfounded claims based solely on your anger. It must be the best you've got because you've fallen back on it three times now...which is an indictment of just how pathetically weak your case is.

Dear little Super, I confess, I chuckled!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

There's no question Dung is a smart guy. He's obviously very knowledgable on public policy, the (inside) workings of Congress etc. But that doesn't mean he's right on all issues.

I'll give my old man as an example. He has a PhD in Economics and Real Estate Finance. He was a graduate school professor at multiple Universities. He's a smart dude. That still doesn't make him right on all economic issues.

I don't find it surprising that in partisan politics we tend to think those who believe what we do to be smarter than those who don't believe what we do.

Hmmmm....I do see your point Wacko......but that does bring up an interesting question. What the fuck happened to you? Took after your Mom?

 

[zappasguitar]

But the entire wage scale does increase. That is why despite raises to minimum wage in the past, poverty persists. There will always be a poverty line. No matter how much you raise the minimum wage that will always be the case.

As I stated earlier it does NOT have to increase all the way up the pay scale.

Oddly you chose to delete that portion of my response so you wouldn't have to deal with the fact I was right.

I used to work as a butcher back in the day and that is the exact excuse I got when minimum wage went up. The boss told everyone he HAD to raise minimum wage pay rate but others were SOL and we could leave if we wanted...oddly, no one did...we sucked it up and dealt with it.

Remember that part? you just chopped it off the end of my response so you could pretend to ignore it.

Again... take Krugmans article... he states there would be problems if the minimum wage went to $20... yet he doesn't distinguish why. It is the same line of thought, just a greater magnitude. The economics of it don't change. Just the severity of the reaction.

Well if the minimum wage was tied to inflation then the increases would be minimal and the reaction would be minimal as well. making the jump from $7.25 and hour to $20 might create problems, fortunately no one is trying to do anything that extreme.

Mutt is right about one thing... to the left this is entirely a political issue. It is not an economic one for them.

Right...because making sure everyone earns a decent living wage is a no brainer for Democrats.

Putting more money in the hands of those in poverty only works if the purchasing power of each dollar remains the same.

Which is why minimum wage needs to be tied to inflation.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Word. It's funny though. After the November election you hear Republicans talk about how they need to reach out to Women, youths, Blacks & Hispanics......and then they blow it. They just can't seem to get their head around anything but your average white guy.

what is truly comical is how you and many dems try to turn anything and everything into a race/gender battle. Divide the population enough against itself so that your masters can do whatever they wish, regardless of whether it actually benefits this country.

Can't help but notice that once again you fail to address the points brought up in favor of continuing with your 'golly gee us Dems are so enlightened' line of crap.