Minimum Wage Hike

Darla said:
They were backed up. And I posted more links. Krugman also delves further into it on his blog. YOu just don't like the sources and prefer your right wing "studies".

I have stipulated that you can find studies to say what you want, either way. You are just a bully who thinks if you type "louder" you win. Mostly you just make an ass out of yourself.
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Again, we see yet another example of the left's 'strategy' when they lose an argument... the 'u a bully'... 'u be angry'... how the fuck do you 'type louder'???
 
Darla said:
They were backed up. And I posted more links. Krugman also delves further into it on his blog. YOu just don't like the sources and prefer your right wing "studies".

I have stipulated that you can find studies to say what you want, either way. You are just a bully who thinks if you type "louder" you win. Mostly you just make an ass out of yourself.
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To hell with Krugman. Arguing for an increase in the minimum wage, in the SOTUA, was a politically brilliant thing to do.
 
Superfreak said:
You really really need to stop injecting your own emotions into the words typed on the screen.

But I know you must deflect now to your standard 'oh you an evil man for talking like that' line of bullshit given that you are incapable of answering that simple question.

Funny how liberals won't answer it...

Where does the money come from?

Simple question. You support the minimum wage increase, yet you have no idea who is going to pay for it.
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The money comes from the same place all money comes from: the money-shitting unicorn in my backyard.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
To hell with Krugman. Arguing for an increase in the minimum wage, in the SOTUA, was a politically brilliant thing to do.
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But I think Krugman is right - it's good economics and it's good politics. The more money people have, the more they spend.

Note I said people. We know that corporations have been hoarding their cash. But people, low-income people, spend it. We are a consumer-driven economy. This stuff is not rocket science, IMO.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Argue the economics all you want too.....politically Republicans are stupid to fight an increase in the minimum wage. Tie it to the rate of inflation and be done with it so that Democrats can't exploit it to political advantage. You know the old saying "Choose your fights well"? This isn't a fight Republican want to make or need to make and it can hurt them with demographics they are trying to attract. I mean Democrats are just toying with Republicans on this issue as they know what the knee jerk reaction will be. Sure enough, Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot, politically speaking, over this.
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You want to tie the minimum wage to inflation??? If you understood the economics of it, you would understand why that is comical.

Who pays for the 24% increase being proposed Mutt?
 
Darla said:
But I think Krugman is right - it's good economics and it's good politics. The more money people have, the more they spend.
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and where does the extra money they will 'have' come from?

Note I said people. We know that corporations have been hoarding their cash. But people, low-income people, spend it. We are a consumer-driven economy. This stuff is not rocket science, IMO.
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So you think these corporations hoarding cash (which they are), are going to suddenly start hiring minimum wage workers?

The vast majority of minimum wage workers are in the service industries... restaurants, cleaning services etc... not typically the industries that are hoarding the cash.

Over half of the minimum wage earners are 25 and younger.
 
Meh, it's really not that big a deal. For a small business with 10 full time employees you're talking about a net difference in $700/week but only in States that use the current Federal guidelines for Minimum wage. A lot of States all ready have the minimum wage tied to the rate of inflation. Most of those States have minimum wages that are fairly close to $9/hr all ready so I seriously doubt that the net economic impact would be that significant, though for those working low paying service sector jobs it certainly wont' hurt and it does provide additional incentive to work so I do agree with Krugman that the pluses are greater than the minuses.

But the political impact is significantly greater than the economic impact. President Obama and Democrats are toying with Republicans knowing that they will shoot themselves in the foot on this issue. Which they have.

Let me ask you this, which demographics would an increase in the minimum wage help most? The answer would be women, those under 30, Hispanics and Blacks. Now.....which Demographics are Republicans having trouble with and are making efforts to attract them? It's the same demographics. Women, those under 30, Hispanics and Blacks.

So Obama throws this idea to raise the minimum wage out there and just a predictably as the sun comming up in the morning you hear a bunch of knee jerk screaming by a bunch of pasty assed chamber of commerce white guys with $12 haircuts, clammoring about the horrors and the evils of the minimum wage......and guess who these pasty assed clowns are alienating in the process?

If Republicans are smart they'd do what they've done in my State and others and say "OK, lets tie the minimum wage to the rate of inflation" and bury that club so Democrats can't use it to beat us over head with it.
 
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Superfreak said:
lol... the sad part is you probably actually believe that.
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The sadder part is that you think there is a straight-forward and agreed-upon answer to an extremely complex question that is dependent upon a multitude of variables. It's kind of like the incidence of corporate taxation.
 
Superfreak said:
Over half of minimum wage earners are 25 and younger. These are unskilled workers. Not low skilled... unskilled. A point the left never seems to grasp.
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but almost 1/2 are over 25....

And many many more just make a dollar or 2 over minimum wage.
 
Superfreak said:
You want to tie the minimum wage to inflation??? If you understood the economics of it, you would understand why that is comical.

Who pays for the 24% increase being proposed Mutt?
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Dude, thats hyperbole. You all ready have 17 States that tie minimum wage to the rate of inflation and thus have a higher minimum wage than the Federal $7.25/hr. As for who pays for that increase. Consumers do of course.
 
darla

a person that works full time at the current minimum wage cannot fully support themselves

we definitely need to adjust now and regularly thereafter the minimum wage
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Meh, it's really not that big a deal. For a small business with 10 full time employees you're talking about a net difference in $700/week but only in States that use the current Federal guidelines for Minimum wage. A lot of States all ready have the minimum wage tied to the rate of inflation. Most of those States have minimum wages that are fairly close to $9/hr all ready so I seriously doubt that the net economic impact would be that significant, though for those working low paying service sector jobs it certainly wont' hurt and it does provide additional incentive to work so I do agree with Krugman that the pluses are greater than the minuses.
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1) in your example that equates to an extra $36k for that small business in a year. You think those small business owners are just going to give away $36k from their pockets? Think that won't effect them? Haven't we heard time and again that the majority of small business owners earn under $250k? You think they are going to give up 15%? Or are they going to let someone go and get increases from the other 9?

2) What extra incentive does it provide to work?

But the political impact is significantly greater than the economic impact. President Obama and Democrats are toying with Republicans knowing that they will shoot themselves in the foot on this issue. Which they have.

Let me ask you this, which demographics would an increase in the minimum wage help most? The answer would be women, those under 30, Hispanics and Blacks. Now.....which Demographics are Republicans having trouble with and are making efforts to attract them? It's the same demographics. Women, those under 30, Hispanics and Blacks.
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No... it would be those under 25 first. They make up over half of minimum wage earners. Tell us... what is the unemployment rate right now for those under 25?

So Obama throws this idea to raise the minimum wage out there and just a predictably as the sun comming up in the morning you hear a bunch of knee jerk screaming by a bunch of pasty assed chamber or commerce white guys with $12 haircuts, clammoring about the horrors and the evils of the minimum wage......and guess who these pasty assed clowns are alienating in the process?
Click to expand...

So reality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the perception Obama is painting? Keep believing that.

If Republicans are smart they'd do what they've done in my State and others and say "OK, lets tie the minimum wage to the rate of inflation" and bury that club so Democrats can't use it to beat us over head with it.
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again... if you understood economics, you would understand why that is comical.
 
Neither Krugman nor SF predicted the Great Recession as accuratly as uscitizen did.
Heck not even MR. The parking lots are full got it right.
 
Superfreak said:
1) in your example that equates to an extra $36k for that small business in a year. You think those small business owners are just going to give away $36k from their pockets? Think that won't effect them? Haven't we heard time and again that the majority of small business owners earn under $250k? You think they are going to give up 15%? Or are they going to let someone go and get increases from the other 9?

2) What extra incentive does it provide to work?



No... it would be those under 25 first. They make up over half of minimum wage earners. Tell us... what is the unemployment rate right now for those under 25?



So reality doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the perception Obama is painting? Keep believing that.



again... if you understood economics, you would understand why that is comical.
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Does anyone need anymore proof than this about the knee jerk reaction of pasty assed chamber of commerce white guys with $12 haircuts shooting themselves in the foot over this issue? LOL
 
Don Quixote said:
darla

a person that works full time at the current minimum wage cannot fully support themselves

we definitely need to adjust now and regularly thereafter the minimum wage
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It is the above mindset that needs to be changed. Minimum wage jobs are not supposed to pay enough for a person to fully support themselves. They are jobs for the unskilled. The majority of whom are under 25.

The rise in minimum wage in the past hasn't changed the fact that they can't live off of it alone. If you pay the unskilled at a level they can support themselves, then:

1) What is the motivation to obtain a skill set?
2) What do you pay those that develop a skill set?
3) If the unskilled get a raise, what do you suppose the skilled workers will want?
4) If the raises start working up the skill set chain... what happens to the overall costs of goods?

You see, it is a circular problem. That is why the mindset needs to change. No increase in the minimum wage will ever be enough for a person to fully support themselves.
 
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