Legalize All Drugs...

Aoxomoxoa said:
I believe that one of the reasons that drugs are so popular is the anarchic and clandestine element associated with them. Making them legal would result in an initial increase but over time once they are legal that would no longer be the case. It would also at a stroke put the cartels out of business, in Afghanistan they could buy up all the poppy crops and use it to make heroin, codeine and morphine legally to medical standards. I have some material which I'll post later about the reasons why Afghanistan first started growing poppies.
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This is taken from the Adam Curtis blog were he describes how American hydrology engineers effectively destroyed the soil in Helmand province and rendered it good only for growing poppies.
 
Hot Young Girls said:
Should pilots, bus drivers, police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, soldiers, and other people whose reactions and judgment society relies on be allowed to partake of the hedonistic libertarian drug-fest?
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Are they allowed to do so with the more legal drugs like alcohol, or prescriptions?
 
Hot Young Girls said:
Should pilots, bus drivers, police, firefighters, doctors, nurses, soldiers, and other people whose reactions and judgment society relies on be allowed to partake of the hedonistic libertarian drug-fest?
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That should be up to there bosses, however I would not care as long as they were not affected at the time they were performing their jobs, and I would expect 0 tolerance.
 
Haiku said:
The discussion is, hopefully, legalize all drugs and yes that would include meth. As disgusting as it is I think we need to decriminalize drugs and end the drug war. I think this for many reasons which I won't be able to go into tonight. I'm hoping to pick this up with more energy tomorrow. Have you watched the film yet? The discussion I linked to is a very informative one btw.
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I disagree whole heartedly, some drugs shouldn't ever be legalized...

We're supposed to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them or worse yet, be careful for what you wish for - you just might get it.

I would first consider the historical context of the Opium Wars, granted Opium produced in India as opposed to China might've been the final blow or the straw that broke the camel's back - that China was headed for trouble anyways...but damn, an entire country got fucked in the ass - by limeys no less.

Nope, not all drugs should be legalized.
 
Zombie Jesus said:
I would first consider the historical context of the Opium Wars, granted Opium produced in India as opposed to China might've been the final blow or the straw that broke the camel's back - that China was headed for trouble anyways...but damn, an entire country got fucked in the ass - by limeys no less.
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I would take the Opium Wars as a lesson on the overall shittiness of protectionism, not on the legality of drugs. Further more, the making of drugs to be illegal hasn't stopped their use, nor the crimes associated with them. So in effect the laws are worthless to begin with, because they fail in their goal. Secondly, it is not within the perview of governments powers to regulate what people do to themselves, be it a good idea or not. So there is no logical reason to continue with the prohibition on drugs, and no moral one either (assuming you believe in individual freedom).
 
Does a person who becomes addicted to drugs only harm themselves?
 
Hot Young Girls said:
Why do you think drugs should be legalized?
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recreational drugs need to be legalized

the money to be made by supplying the u s of a's hunger for drugs is like prohibition with all of the negative effects and increase in criminal activity

also, there is the problem with all of the money leaving the country and how that money corrupts governments in countries that supply those drugs

i used to use sudafed and could buy a bottle of 100 for a couple of bucks, now it is rare and expensive and subject to federal regulation

the encroachment of government in to people's lives as a result of the war on drugs is obscene and a threat to our freedoms

if we legalize recreational drugs and make operating machinery, especially cars, while under the influence a crime rather than using a recreational drug at home

we have made an industry out of drugs just like alcohol during prohibition with the same effect

police departments do not want it legalized because they make money out of confiscating property and cash and can use possession to make an easy bust

legalize and tax it in order to provide rehabilitation for addicts

recreational drugs are a medical problem and should not be a criminal problem

consider just how much time police could spend on other crimes if they are not spending time trying to bust drug suppliers and investigate burglaries and robberies by druggies trying to get enough money to buy their drugs

also, consider how much your insurance costs would go down if druggies do not have to break in to your home or rob you on the street
 
If drugs are legalized, will the people who become addicted to them work, or will they still commit crimes or depend on government programs for money?
 
Sparta said:
I would take the Opium Wars as a lesson on the overall shittiness of protectionism, not on the legality of drugs. Further more, the making of drugs to be illegal hasn't stopped their use, nor the crimes associated with them. So in effect the laws are worthless to begin with, because they fail in their goal. Secondly, it is not within the perview of governments powers to regulate what people do to themselves, be it a good idea or not. So there is no logical reason to continue with the prohibition on drugs, and no moral one either (assuming you believe in individual freedom).
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I would take it as a lessons learned with what happens when a great number of the populace gets hooked on hardcore opiates.

No, it hasn't stopped their use, but it has hindered their use and that's all that I could ever ask for. Who's goal? The state's or the fed's? Even if they get half of them I'm alright with it.

Sure it's within the government's powers, the Supreme Court deciding the Harrison Act (and later on, the Controlled Substances Act) constitutional...it's not rocket science, it's pretty much been spelled out for quite some time.

Sure there's a logical reasons to continue with prohibition on certain drugs. I believe in individual freedom within reason, when other's individual freedoms start imposing or degrading other's then societal nullifiers (our drug laws) redefines or checks what is or isn't moral.

I've seen the effects of what 50% heroin addiction rates look like in a village of maybe a thousand (give or take) citizens in Afghanistan - it's not pretty...even though there are laws against it's use, those laws weren't regulated or enforced (and this was during the heyday of Taliban rule), contrasted with Dubai's or even Greece's (or Singapore's or Morocco's) harsh drug laws and there's no such thing a 50% heroin addiction rate for a town of thousand or so citizens...

Booze or pot, no problem - have at it...heroin or meth - it's gotta be checked (my opinion). How we check it is a discussion for another thread.
 
Don Quixote said:
recreational drugs need to be legalized

the money to be made by supplying the u s of a's hunger for drugs is like prohibition with all of the negative effects and increase in criminal activity

also, there is the problem with all of the money leaving the country and how that money corrupts governments in countries that supply those drugs

i used to use sudafed and could buy a bottle of 100 for a couple of bucks, now it is rare and expensive and subject to federal regulation

the encroachment of government in to people's lives as a result of the war on drugs is obscene and a threat to our freedoms

if we legalize recreational drugs and make operating machinery, especially cars, while under the influence a crime rather than using a recreational drug at home

we have made an industry out of drugs just like alcohol during prohibition with the same effect

police departments do not want it legalized because they make money out of confiscating property and cash and can use possession to make an easy bust

legalize and tax it in order to provide rehabilitation for addicts

recreational drugs are a medical problem and should not be a criminal problem

consider just how much time police could spend on other crimes if they are not spending time trying to bust drug suppliers and investigate burglaries and robberies by druggies trying to get enough money to buy their drugs

also, consider how much your insurance costs would go down if druggies do not have to break in to your home or rob you on the street
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Heroin, methamphetamines, or crackrocks are more than just recreational drugs - legalizing them then taxing them causes more ethical problems than the dumb ass War on Drugs as well as any drug that you could die from - from just getting off of it - should be controlled as well.

It's already illegal to operate an automobile while under the influence of controlled substances in every state in the union so that point is moot.
 
Hot Young Girls said:
Who will care for the people who ruin their health with drugs?

The ones who can't or won't work anymore?

The families that are left destitute by breadwinners addicted to drugs?

The victims of accidents caused by stoned drivers?

Are you saying society won't pay a tremendous cost for legalization?
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the drugs would be considerably cheaper and the savings with regard to law enforcement and prisons enormous

if someone has an addiction problem, there will be rehabilitation centers

driving under the influence would still be illegal

you seem to think that if recreational drugs are cheap and readily available that suddenly people will become addicts who would otherwise not become addicts, why?
 
Zombie Jesus said:
Heroin, methamphetamines, or crackrocks are more than just recreational drugs - legalizing them then taxing them causes more ethical problems than the dumb ass War on Drugs as well as any drug that you could die from - from just getting off of it - should be controlled as well.

It's already illegal to operate an automobile while under the influence of controlled substances in every state in the union so that point is moot.
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i disagree with you, perhaps you have some data that proves your point, but all i see from you is opinion

have you studied the results of the nation's experiment with prohibition and the resulting increase in crime and deaths due to tainted alcohol

we already have the disease of drug addiction, getting rid of the draconian drug laws would likely reduce addiction

all i know for sure is that the war on drugs is lost and the nation is hemorrhaging money and lives right now as a result of our drug laws

just a few days ago a coastguard chief petty officer was killed by being run over by a 'ponga' boat smuggling in bales of mj

our national and state parks are being destroyed by illegal mj growers

as long as there is demand for illegal drugs, criminals will do their best to supply those drugs...at a big profit

legalizing those drugs will kill the drug cartels and stop the flow of money out of our nation

as for morality, addiction is a medical problem not a criminal problem, so treat them that way
 
Don Quixote said:
the drugs would be considerably cheaper and the savings with regard to law enforcement and prisons enormous
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Really? Got any real-world examples where this approach has been tried?

Don Quixote said:
if someone has an addiction problem, there will be rehabilitation centers
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There are rehabs now.

Who pays for the poor addict's treatment?

What's the success rate?

Do you know the answers?

Don Quixote said:
driving under the influence would still be illegal
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And the innocent people killed by stoned people breaking the law, and the grieving families would be comforted by the fact that it was against the law to drive under the influence?

Don Quixote said:
you seem to think that if recreational drugs are cheap and readily available that suddenly people will become addicts who would otherwise not become addicts, why?
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Did I say that?
 
Don Quixote said:
i disagree with you, perhaps you have some data that proves your point, but all i see from you is opinion

have you studied the results of the nation's experiment with prohibition and the resulting increase in crime and deaths due to tainted alcohol

we already have the disease of drug addiction, getting rid of the draconian drug laws would likely reduce addiction
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Well, we're not here just to agree with what everyone posts, I would think that it's expected at some point.

There's nothing written in stone that legalizing the more hardcore drugs would likely reduce addiction rates. I've seen the effects first hand of what could happen if drug laws are non existant or aren't regulated or enforced in Afghanistan, more than half (at least the males) the population of a village being heroin addicts contrasted to a village of the same size and likeness where it was heavily controlled, regulated, and the laws were enforced - the addiction rates were much lower, the differences in the standards of living (even though it was Afghanistan) were drastically different.

You can be an alcoholic and recover and live a whole lot more than if you were a heroin addict trying to recover, same goes for meth and crack cocaine...it's not the same thing, that'd be like trying to compare methadone to Chantix at the end of the day.

Don Quixote said:
all i know for sure is that the war on drugs is lost and the nation is hemorrhaging money and lives right now as a result of our drug laws

just a few days ago a coastguard chief petty officer was killed by being run over by a 'ponga' boat smuggling in bales of mj
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I'll be the first to say that the War on Drugs is stupid, it doesn't mean that there should be a free for all on those drug types that're hardcore enough that it'll only take one or two hits and you're an addict, that once an addict there's a good chance you're not gonna live through the rehab trying to kick the habit.

Don Quixote said:
our national and state parks are being destroyed by illegal mj growers

as long as there is demand for illegal drugs, criminals will do their best to supply those drugs...at a big profit
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Not much to do with the price of tea in China.

Don Quixote said:
legalizing those drugs will kill the drug cartels and stop the flow of money out of our nation

as for morality, addiction is a medical problem not a criminal problem, so treat them that way
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Sounds more like your opinion, unless you've got some data that proves drug cartels would just keel over and die at the whim of all drugs known to mankind being legalized...works both ways...nonetheless, I did point out the Opium Wars, data wise it's estimated that more than ten percent of the population in China became addicts, it wasn't til opium became a controlled substance (on mainland China, Hong Kong however was a different story altogether) did the rate drop.
 
Zombie Jesus said:
Well, we're not here just to agree with what everyone posts, I would think that it's expected at some point.

There's nothing written in stone that legalizing the more hardcore drugs would likely reduce addiction rates. I've seen the effects first hand of what could happen if drug laws are non existant or aren't regulated or enforced in Afghanistan, more than half (at least the males) the population of a village being heroin addicts contrasted to a village of the same size and likeness where it was heavily controlled, regulated, and the laws were enforced - the addiction rates were much lower, the differences in the standards of living (even though it was Afghanistan) were drastically different.

You can be an alcoholic and recover and live a whole lot more than if you were a heroin addict trying to recover, same goes for meth and crack cocaine...it's not the same thing, that'd be like trying to compare methadone to Chantix at the end of the day.



I'll be the first to say that the War on Drugs is stupid, it doesn't mean that there should be a free for all on those drug types that're hardcore enough that it'll only take one or two hits and you're an addict, that once an addict there's a good chance you're not gonna live through the rehab trying to kick the habit.



Not much to do with the price of tea in China.



Sounds more like your opinion, unless you've got some data that proves drug cartels would just keel over and die at the whim of all drugs known to mankind being legalized...works both ways...nonetheless, I did point out the Opium Wars, data wise it's estimated that more than ten percent of the population in China became addicts, it wasn't til opium became a controlled substance (on mainland China, Hong Kong however was a different story altogether) did the rate drop.
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well stated, well posed

great post
 
It isn't like we don't have an end to Prohibition to look back on in history to be able to figure out what the cartels might do. It's like we're incapable to look back at failed policy, and the end of it, in the past. Even policy with direct links.
 
prohibition was awesome. it was so awesome it required a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to change it.

think about. and that was for alcohol.
 
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