Fucking Pig Feds, This story has me absolutely disgusted.

Superfreak said:
herbal medicines have been used for thousands of years. Tell us, what is the difference between taking vicoden and percocet for pain vs. marijuana? Oh yeah, the first two are truly bad for you and can lead to addiction to hard drugs.
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Actually you are quite misinformed. If used to treat pain, the risk of getting addicted to opioids is quite low. The "bad" part of the products you mentioned is the acetaminophen which can cause serious liver damage at over 4g/day

I don't recall saying herbal medicines in general don't work. Another case of commenting on something not even said.

Since that appears to be the MO here. Aspirin could not get approved by the FDA today
 
The Dude said:
Two states now legal and 17 medical!
Obama is letting us do this!
Maybe this term hell help more.
Progressives and those of us in the movement know the progress made under Obama.
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you are a true fucking idiot. Obama is doing absolutely shit to stop the FEDS from hammering people, you fucking moron.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
so you're main point isn't whether a law is constitutional or not, just that it's the law and you must obey it, constitution be damned?

yeah, we all know how well government institutes the will of the people.
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Pretty much. Sorry that this isn't the answer you were looking for. Then again the answer you were looking for boils down to, "If you can make some kind of constitutional argument against a law you don't have to obey it."

So I guess I'm not that sorry and you still have to obey the speed limit no matter how much your pursuit of happiness is infringed on.
 
Disillusioned said:
So you want everyone to be their own constitutional law expert? That's why we have defenses in court, presided over by people who are legal experts, courts are where the laws are hammered out, take suit against the government if you want to appeal the law. But you better have a back up plan because the Supreme Court seems to be siding with "Yes, obey the laws."

They aren't set in stone, you can change them, but until you get the majority on your side, you still have to obey or face the consequences.
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So Gandhi was wrong?
 
Superfreak said:
The choice was still 10 years in jail... it is the fact that he has to go to jail at all that he has the problem with.

If you are facing a life changing 10 years in prison and no chance of appeal vs. 80 years and the right to appeal, the smart play is to maintain your rights... not give them up.
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Aoxomoxoa said:
What a fantastic offer they gave him.
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Incorrect...both of you. He had a plea deal offered, but demanded his day in court. Once he lost, the deal changed to 10 years.
 
I Love America said:
Actually you are quite misinformed. If used to treat pain, the risk of getting addicted to opioids is quite low. The "bad" part of the products you mentioned is the acetaminophen which can cause serious liver damage at over 4g/day
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Nonsense. Opioids do nothing to cure the problem. As such, the vast majority of those who choose to alleviate pain with same, while ignoring the underlying problem that causes the pain, will most definitely become addicted to the medication.
 
I Love America said:
Actually you are quite misinformed. If used to treat pain, the risk of getting addicted to opioids is quite low. The "bad" part of the products you mentioned is the acetaminophen which can cause serious liver damage at over 4g/day

I don't recall saying herbal medicines in general don't work. Another case of commenting on something not even said.

Since that appears to be the MO here. Aspirin could not get approved by the FDA today
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Exactly. Also, many do not understand the difference between physical dependence and addiction.
 
Althea said:
Nonsense. Opioids do nothing to cure the problem. As such, the vast majority of those who choose to alleviate pain with same, while ignoring the underlying problem that causes the pain, will most definitely become addicted to the medication.
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I have to disagree with you most strenuously. Many times the underlying problem can not be corrected. For example, pain caused due to nerve damage resulting from a trauma. IE: A crushed muscle.

As I previously noted there is a difference between addiction and developing a physical dependence. Opioids lead to physical dependence meaning the body adapts to the drug and to suddenly stop taking the drug can cause serious health consequences not to mention a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. The idea is to take just enough to relieve the pain without taking enough to feel the "high".

One way to describe it is how one feels after a few drinks or smoking a joint. The "buzz" quickly disappears if one accidently hits their finger with a hammer. The pain is the hammer so it prevents the opioids from causing a "buzz" which prevents an addiction from forming. When taken in the proper amount, just enough to relieve the pain, there is no "high".
 
apple0154 said:
I have to disagree with you most strenuously. Many times the underlying problem can not be corrected. For example, pain caused due to nerve damage resulting from a trauma. IE: A crushed muscle.

As I previously noted there is a difference between addiction and developing a physical dependence. Opioids lead to physical dependence meaning the body adapts to the drug and to suddenly stop taking the drug can cause serious health consequences not to mention a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. The idea is to take just enough to relieve the pain without taking enough to feel the "high".

One way to describe it is how one feels after a few drinks or smoking a joint. The "buzz" quickly disappears if one accidently hits their finger with a hammer. The pain is the hammer so it prevents the opioids from causing a "buzz" which prevents an addiction from forming. When taken in the proper amount, just enough to relieve the pain, there is no "high".
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Maybe not but you are.
 
Disillusioned said:
Pretty much. Sorry that this isn't the answer you were looking for. Then again the answer you were looking for boils down to, "If you can make some kind of constitutional argument against a law you don't have to obey it."

So I guess I'm not that sorry and you still have to obey the speed limit no matter how much your pursuit of happiness is infringed on.
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there are numerous court decisions that clearly state that an unconstitutional law is not a law and can be ignored. speed limits, however, are constitutional so your strawman is irrelevant.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
yeah, those damn founders are so out of touch with today
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It's not the Founders who were out of touch. It's certain interpreters who are out of touch.

Again, go back to the Preamble, "the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped the Constitution would achieve."

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Along with the other verbs "promote" and "secure" are active verbs. The intention of the subject, the government, was to do something, yet, some people incorrectly believe the government shouldn't be doing anything.
 
apple0154 said:
It's not the Founders who were out of touch. It's certain interpreters who are out of touch.

Again, go back to the Preamble, "the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped the Constitution would achieve."

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Along with the other verbs "promote" and "secure" are active verbs. The intention of the subject, the government, was to do something, yet, some people incorrectly believe the government shouldn't be doing anything.
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you continue to believe that the preamble is the end all be all of our governments purpose, but you willfully ignore the restrictions and limitations put upon that government by the actual document that creates the federal government and those rights that it is forbidden to intrude upon. Therefore, your interpretation is shit and deserves to be ignored.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
you continue to believe that the preamble is the end all be all of our governments purpose, but you willfully ignore the restrictions and limitations put upon that government by the actual document that creates the federal government and those rights that it is forbidden to intrude upon. Therefore, your interpretation is shit and deserves to be ignored.
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For anyone to suggest the Federal Government is forbidden to take action when 45,000 citizens are needlessly dying every year is a jackass. If the government has a right to accomplish something it also has the right to take the necessary action to accomplish it and it is clear the government has a right to protect the lives of the citizens. Spin it any way you want.
 
apple0154 said:
I have to disagree with you most strenuously. Many times the underlying problem can not be corrected. For example, pain caused due to nerve damage resulting from a trauma. IE: A crushed muscle.

As I previously noted there is a difference between addiction and developing a physical dependence. Opioids lead to physical dependence meaning the body adapts to the drug and to suddenly stop taking the drug can cause serious health consequences not to mention a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. The idea is to take just enough to relieve the pain without taking enough to feel the "high".

One way to describe it is how one feels after a few drinks or smoking a joint. The "buzz" quickly disappears if one accidently hits their finger with a hammer. The pain is the hammer so it prevents the opioids from causing a "buzz" which prevents an addiction from forming. When taken in the proper amount, just enough to relieve the pain, there is no "high".
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I don't see the difference between 'physical dependence', and 'addiction'?

It may be semantics, but if you are only taking enough opiate to block the pain, it doesn't matter if you get high or not. You are taking the meds every day if your pain is chronic.

If you stop taking the medication, you will most definitely suffer other symptoms besides the return of the pain.
 
apple0154 said:
For anyone to suggest the Federal Government is forbidden to take action when 45,000 citizens are needlessly dying every year is a jackass. If the government has a right to accomplish something it also has the right to take the necessary action to accomplish it and it is clear the government has a right to protect the lives of the citizens. Spin it any way you want.
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you think being called a jackass is gonna bother me, especially when you know i'm right? LOL!!! you're the one doing the spinning, btw. you know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it except for your america hating liberal friends.
 
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