Official VP Debate Thread

cannabis said:
biden lost on decorum

imo...ryan clearly won the debate
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Biden wasn't there to win the debate per se. He was there to fire up the liberal base who was obviously dispirited after OWEblahblah's poor performance. Both sides will scramble to try to claim victory, but in the end it was a tie. They each had good moments and they each had not so good moments.
 
Well it was interesting reading through the conservative mutual admiration society in this thread. Pretty obvious that Biden won this debate hands down. Ryan for sure did well, a far freaken cry from the horrible debate performance of Sarah Palin (whom the ussual suspects here laughingly claimed she won). I was glad to see Biden get on the moderator abour Ryan's filibustering. In the first half he kept talking past his time limit and kept talking and talking and talking with out ever really completing a thought. So, so much for "Biden Interrupting". Hell he couldn't get a word in edge wise in the first 30 minutes. Till he made a commet to the Moderator. So good for Biden on that score. Then Ryan kept dodging questions. Five times he was asked to give a specific answer or provide detail for a question and he just flat out refused too. He stuck with the party line of Nixon "We Have A Plan!" (but it's a secret).

Dodge #1. While playing the "blame game" Ryan was very critical about the Stimulus money but dodged the question about his hypocrisy in asking for Stimulus money for his State.

Dodge #2. When asked about his Voucher Plan for medicare increasing costs for seniors he didn't answer the question, he just accused his opponent of playing scare tactics. That was Ryans dodge almost everytime he was criticized. Instead of rebutting the question with facts he played the "Boogeyman" card.

Dodge #3. Tax cuts. Ryan flat out refused to give specifics on how they would cut taxes and increase millitary spending, while maintaining the solvency of Medicare and SS. Nor would he identify specific tax loopholes. He just filibustered.


Dodge #4. Abortion. Ryan has a very significant public record on opposing abortion in ALL INSTANCES. Now he's for abortion in case of rape, incest and life of mother? So he dodges by making the rediculous argument that Obama care is persecuting religious freedom. Nice dodge but I can at least understand that as his abortion stance is hugely unpopular.

Dodge #5. This one made me laugh. When asked the question about the tone of the campaigns and the constant negative attacks from a disgruntled soldier, he thanked the soldier for his service, then disrespected him by not even answering the question. He just attacked his opponent. That was the best dodge of the night.

So between these obvious dodges on questions and his absolute unwillingness to provide any specifics for Romney's policies what so ever, Ryan pretty much got his ass handed to him last night.

But for the first time out of the box against a seasoned pro he didn't do bad.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well it was interesting reading through the conservative mutual admiration society in this thread. Pretty obvious that Biden won this debate hands down. Ryan for sure did well, a far freaken cry from the horrible debate performance of Sarah Palin (whom the ussual suspects here laughingly claimed she won). I was glad to see Biden get on the moderator abour Ryan's filibustering. In the first half he kept talking past his time limit and kept talking and talking and talking with out ever really completing a thought. So, so much for "Biden Interrupting". Hell he couldn't get a word in edge wise in the first 30 minutes. Till he made a commet to the Moderator. So good for Biden on that score. Then Ryan kept dodging questions. Five times he was asked to give a specific answer or provide detail for a question and he just flat out refused too. He stuck with the party line of Nixon "We Have A Plan!" (but it's a secret).

Dodge #1. While playing the "blame game" Ryan was very critical about the Stimulus money but dodged the question about his hypocrisy in asking for Stimulus money for his State.

Dodge #2. When asked about his Voucher Plan for medicare increasing costs for seniors he didn't answer the question, he just accused his opponent of playing scare tactics. That was Ryans dodge almost everytime he was criticized. Instead of rebutting the question with facts he played the "Boogeyman" card.

Dodge #3. Tax cuts. Ryan flat out refused to give specifics on how they would cut taxes and increase millitary spending, while maintaining the solvency of Medicare and SS. Nor would he identify specific tax loopholes. He just filibustered.


Dodge #4. Abortion. Ryan has a very significant public record on opposing abortion in ALL INSTANCES. Now he's for abortion in case of rape, incest and life of mother? So he dodges by making the rediculous argument that Obama care is persecuting religious freedom. Nice dodge but I can at least understand that as his abortion stance is hugely unpopular.

Dodge #5. This one made me laugh. When asked the question about the tone of the campaigns and the constant negative attacks from a disgruntled soldier, he thanked the soldier for his service, then disrespected him by not even answering the question. He just attacked his opponent. That was the best dodge of the night.

So between these obvious dodges on questions and his absolute unwillingness to provide any specifics for Romney's policies what so ever, Ryan pretty much got his ass handed to him last night.

But for the first time out of the box against a seasoned pro he didn't do bad.
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So in effect you are saying it was a tie. Both sides walk away from the debate last night with what they wanted. Biden missed an opportunity with his antics. Had he showed a little more decorum he would have walked away the clear winner. I think Krauthammer nailed it. If you read the transcripts it was a tie. If you listened to it on radio Biden won. If you watched it on TV, Ryan won.

But, partisans will disagree. The only thing anyone will probably agree on is that at the end of the day this debate means very little in the course of this election
 
FactsRStubborn said:
So in effect you are saying it was a tie. Both sides walk away from the debate last night with what they wanted. Biden missed an opportunity with his antics. Had he showed a little more decorum he would have walked away the clear winner. I think Krauthammer nailed it. If you read the transcripts it was a tie. If you listened to it on radio Biden won. If you watched it on TV, Ryan won.

But, partisans will disagree. The only thing anyone will probably agree on is that at the end of the day this debate means very little in the course of this election
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Now how in the world in Right Wing Wonderland does a comment like "Ryan got his ass handed to him" become interpreted as a tie?

Ryan did well, he did far better than Sarah Palin did, which isn't exactly setting the bar very hard. I mean Sarah is the only VP Debator to underperform even more than Dan Qauyle.

But the fact of the matter is, is that Ryan was playing etch a sketch too. He dodged questions far more often than his opponent and he failed to provide specifics when asked to do so.

However, I do agree with your conclusion. The only thing the VP debates proves is that both candidates are qualified to hold the big job if something were to happen to POTUS. Other than that it will have no impact on the outcome of the election.
 
bravo said:
No....letting Biden lie unhindered.....blaming the intelligence community for the Obama lies....no one requested more security in Libya....???

What a load of lying crap....all passed over by the mod.
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Well hot damn, "blaming the intelligence community." Isn't this exactly what you did about the intel for the Iraq war? If bush got a pass for bad intel, then so does Obama.
 
christiefan915 said:
Specifics needed.
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BIDEN: I will be very specific. Number one, the — this lecture on embassy security — the congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for, number one. So much for the embassy security piece.
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Lie number one.

Also completely irrelevant to the point given the Ryan budget did not pass. Thus the lack of security was not due to a budget that did not pass. Not to mention the fact that it is a complete fabrication to say the $300 million (a cut for 2014 by the way) was to come from embassy security. But even assuming Biden had been correct, it still would not have had to come from THAT embassy.
 
BIDEN: Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view.
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This is a direct contradiction to what State Department officials in Libya have said.
 
A summary of comments by JPP conservatives.

Biden v. Ryan

trying to laugh off your opponents statements...
Biden's attempt at condescension isn't playing well ...
Hair plugs are lookin' good....
biden looks desperate interrupting all the time ...
The mod. is letting Biden run off at the mouth and interrupt constantly...
He appears childish...
can biden stop interrupting? sheesh bad form...
personally, I think Ryan rocked it.....
When Biden is not speaking, he's laughing or grinning off-camera, looking like some smug condescending ass...
The constant interruptions looked unprofessional and actually made him seem weaker rather than "aggressive"...
some people are given biden the edge but it certainly isn't a run away victory...
More people are talking about the smirks and interruptions than what was said....
Biden continuously talked over Ryan...
The only thing anyone will be able to talk about is Bidens One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest smile...
I think the public will perceive the debate to be a tie...
I still think it is funny that lefties think that Biden won...
please explain how you think biden won. we know he won the most interruptions in a single debate award......
biden lost on decorum imo...ryan clearly won the debate...
Biden was talking all over ryan. not just for a second or two but sometimes minutes...

Martha Raddatz

I see her lean to the left is obvious....
Every time the moderator interrogates Ryan he has to answer....she doesn't do that to Biden...
Her partisan leaning came shinning through....
Interrogating Ryan and letting Biden completely off the hook shows exactly where she was coming form...

Precious little from you guys on the actual substance of the debate... you know, the part that Ryan failed miserably. A couple of comments on Libya and Iran, that was about it. All you did was focus on style, well that's not going to cut it for people like me who wanted to see Ryan make some detailed points about what he and Rmoney would do if they won. And blaming Martha Raddatz for Ryan's showing is just hilarious. She asked him specific questions and he refused to give specific answers. What exactly is in their plans, that both seem to be afraid of showing the public? It's the coward's way out, never getting too detailed so your comments don't come back and bite you down the road. Good thing they're not running on a platform of transparency in government, huh!
 
Superfreak said:
Lie number one.

Also completely irrelevant to the point given the Ryan budget did not pass. Thus the lack of security was not due to a budget that did not pass. Not to mention the fact that it is a complete fabrication to say the $300 million (a cut for 2014 by the way) was to come from embassy security. But even assuming Biden had been correct, it still would not have had to come from THAT embassy.
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It's not that cut and dried, according to fact checkers. Full explanation at link.

Conclusion: It's unclear how high Nordstrom's request got in the administration, but he says he did ask the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs for more security help at the Benghazi post.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html
 
Like the Presidential debate, I did not watch the VP debate. Instead, I read the text. From the text, I would give Biden a distinct edge in this debate. Though even reading it was difficult with all the interruptions. After reading the text, I watched the debate. After watching it, I can see why the Dem base was 'happy' with Biden and thought he crushed Ryan and I can see why the Rep base thought Ryan won due to Joe being insanely obnoxious.

I think it likely a draw overall, though on substance Biden won.
 
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