Gas Prices

I still have not figured out why the population is not up in arms and protesting in large numbers! I guess they have all learned to accept their enslavement????

Yes Europe has higher gas prices but Europe does not have a giant oil producing neighbor like Canada. On that note? Why is Canada paying global oil prices when we are sitting on all this oil? Answer? Canada does NOT have true sovereignty......

We are paying $1:30 a liter! Sure we pay an added 7% of taxes though that still doesn't add up.

You know why nobody really complains about gas prices in Europe?

Because $1.30 a liter isn't bad when it's only 400-500 miles to cross AN ENTIRE COUNTRY.

Hell, Clarkson drove from London to Edinburgh AND BACK on one tank of gas on Top Gear once!

Here in Texas, if I want to go visit Colorado, I have to drive nearly 12 hours at 75 mph just to get OUT OF THE STATE.
 
21 posts and Liberty was the only one to get it right. This actually is not OWEdummyfuckers fault, however, I am more than willing to let the big eared fairy take the fall for it. Superfreak, Maobama and Bush do not set monetary policy. That is the Fed chairman. Nobody wants to cut spending and there isn't enough revenue to tax, so the Fed keeps sucking up US debt. Nice huh? What could go wrong?
 
Well, like, who has the incentive to actually build a new one? Restricting supply because of refinery shortages just means that the oil companies make more money producing less gas. The demand outlook isn't terribly promising for the size of the capital investment required to build a new one. Sunoco and Valero aren't exactly tearing it up financially as it is.

Pure nonsense. You have East Coast facilities shutting down, same thing happening in Europe. This while demand from China etc... continues to build. There is profit in expansion of refining.
 
Pure nonsense. You have East Coast facilities shutting down, same thing happening in Europe. This while demand from China etc... continues to build. There is profit in expansion of refining.

If there was profit to be made, you can bet your ass that more people would be clamoring to build new refineries. But they aren't. How do you explain that? Like one company has actually sought a permit to build a new facility over the past few decades.
 
If there was profit to be made, you can bet your ass that more people would be clamoring to build new refineries. But they aren't. How do you explain that? Like one company has actually sought a permit to build a new facility over the past few decades.

Bullshit. It took 7 years for Arizona Clean Fuels to get a friggin permit. Port Arthur TX facility just opened capacity that will double production. There is money to be made there. It is complete stupidity to pretend otherwise. We are at early 80's capacity right now due to closures. It is costly to build given all the roadblocks thrown up by the government, environmental groups and NIMBY efforts (as I stated earlier).
 
Bullshit. It took 7 years for Arizona Clean Fuels to get a friggin permit. Port Arthur TX facility just opened capacity that will double production. There is money to be made there. It is complete stupidity to pretend otherwise. We are at early 80's capacity right now due to closures. It is costly to build given all the roadblocks thrown up by the government, environmental groups and NIMBY efforts (as I stated earlier).


The fact that you can name the only entity that actually sought a permit to build a new refinery in the past few decades ought to tell you everything. There isn't much of an appetite for it because it is costly and there really isn't that much profit in it. Expanding capacity at existing facilities is a different story, but you raised the "no new refineries" point so I addressed that.
 
I'm not posting this to start another blame Obama thread. I'm posting to just complain in general. I think I paid $5 for a gallon of gas for the first time in my life this week. I drove from SF to LA down I-5. For anyone not familiar with the route it is through the middle of California so it is basically flat, hot, ugly and out in the middle of nowhere with periods of terrible cow manure smell. Because it is so remote gast stations are able to charge more and as a result idiots who don't prepare well, like me, get stuck having to buy their gas.

And yes I'm aware of gas prices in different European cities are far higher than ours. But in America I've never had to pay this high. It sucked. (and no I didn't fill up. I purchased what I thought I needed to get to L.A. where I filled up at $4.31/gallon.)
Well quit whining about it and do something about it. I fucking sold my gas guzzler, bought an fuel efficient car, moved closer to work and started ridding my bike to work. I save over $500 a month on auto/commuting expenses (if you also include my wifes commuting costs it's far more than $500/month), I've lost weight and gotten a lot fitter and I gain about an extra hour and a half each day for myself that I'm not stuck in a car going back and forth from work.

Corporations and the free market aren't going to do anything for you. About a $1.00/gal of that cost for gas is from Wall Street speculators. $2.00/gal more can be added from increased demand in India and China. So forget about supply and demand, that's not in your favor. Gasoline if anything will continue to rise and there's not much that government can do about that other than to focus on creating the infrastructure for alternative fuels but that aint gonna help you now.

But it aint like your powerless. So what's more important in your life? Having a big powerfull gas guzzling car and spending a big chunk of your life traveling up and down the road or is controlling your cost of living and having a higher quality of life more important to you? It's not like we have to be a slave to the automobile. I know a shit load of people who are $30,000 to $50,000 dollars in debt for car payments and spend $500 to $1000/ month in gas. It's insane! My total transportation cost for this year including car payment, insurance, gas and maintenance is under $500/month for not just me but my household ( wife, niece, myself).
 
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Well quit whining about it and do something about it. I fucking sold my gas guzzler, bought an fuel efficient car, moved closer to work and started ridding my bike to work. I save over $500 a month on auto/commuting expenses (if you also include my wifes commuting costs it's far more than $500/month), I've lost weight and gotten a lot fitter and I gain about an extra hour and a half each day for myself that I'm not stuck in a car going back and forth from work.

1) I do not own a gas guzzler.

2) I work out regularly.

3) I'm not moving to LA so I can be closer to the LA Coliseum for five or six home games a year.
 
The fact that you can name the only entity that actually sought a permit to build a new refinery in the past few decades ought to tell you everything. There isn't much of an appetite for it because it is costly and there really isn't that much profit in it. Expanding capacity at existing facilities is a different story, but you raised the "no new refineries" point so I addressed that.

LMAO... there isn't much interest in building in the US because the government, environmental agencies and NIMBY movements make it hard. Again, if it takes 7-10 years to get permits, it is a huge disincentive to build here. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is profitable as you suggest.

Also, the fact that the TX facility doubled capacity is like adding an entire new facility... but I am sure it isn't going to be profitable... right Dung? If new capacity wasn't profitable... why the hell would they double capacity Dung?
 
LMAO... there isn't much interest in building in the US because the government, environmental agencies and NIMBY movements make it hard. Again, if it takes 7-10 years to get permits, it is a huge disincentive to build here. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is profitable as you suggest.

Also, the fact that the TX facility doubled capacity is like adding an entire new facility... but I am sure it isn't going to be profitable... right Dung? If new capacity wasn't profitable... why the hell would they double capacity Dung?


(1) From 1976 to 1998 no one sought to build a new refinery. Again, that ought to tell you something. It is an capital intensive proposition with questionable returns, at best.

(2) I didn't say that new capacity isn't profitable. I said that building a new refinery isn't that profitable. Those are different things.
 
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Neither of you want to hear thereal reason from an insider!
The abandonment obligation is 10 times more problematic than permitting and approval.
We expand what we have because we don't want to pay to clean that up and start over somewhere else.
 
I think it more likely due to the age of the refineries than anything else. Try and build a new one... anywhere... NIMBY strikes again.

I think the last one in the US was built in the late 70's.
That's understandable though. My sister lives by a refinery. Thirty years ago it was like a death sentence. Highest cancer rate in the nation with an average life expectency of 57, mainly due to contamination from PAH's (primarily naphthalene) and aromatics (primarily benzene) that is until environmental standards we're implmented that made them significantly safer (though by no means safe) to live near. I'd be upset if I found out that a refinery was being built in my neighborhood too and hell I work for a petrochemical company. The are inherently dangerous facilities manufacturing inherently hazardous materials. I'd put it to you like this. It's significantly safer to live next to a permitted Part B Hazardous Waste Treatment facility than it is to live by a refinery.

Having said that, we need refineries.
 
(1) From 1976 to 1998 no one sought to build a new refinery. Again, that ought to tell you something. It is an capital intensive proposition with questionable returns, at best.

LOL... yeah, it tells me oil was at $15-25/brl ...

(2) I didn't say that new capacity isn't profitable. I said that building a new refinery isn't that profitable. Those are different things.

Tell us Dung... what is the difference? What makes the cost prohibitive for one and not the other?
 
They dont build them so they can restrict supply and thus drive up the costs. What I have been saying the capitalists have done all along. The elites have had a monopoly on oil from the beginning.

Canada has tons of unused land, right next to oil wells.
You don't know what you're talking about and (I thought the day would never come when I would say this.) SF is right. We have not built new refineries because of the onerous cost of permitting and siting a new one due to political activism by NIMBY's.
 
Lol at poor people with the justifications!
Does Nike need to justify $100 shoes?
Does Cali need to justify way too high real estate?
$5 gas is a bargain.
Particularly when you ride your bicycle more miles than you drive your car. I can afford $10/gal gas cause I don't drive that much. :)
 
Well, like, who has the incentive to actually build a new one? Restricting supply because of refinery shortages just means that the oil companies make more money producing less gas. The demand outlook isn't terribly promising for the size of the capital investment required to build a new one. Sunoco and Valero aren't exactly tearing it up financially as it is.
Restricting supply has had little to do with it. Nimby's on the other hand have had a great deal to do with it but one of the other big factors is capacity. For many years we had an excess of refining capacity in our nation and many refineries had abysmal returns and subsequently closed operations. With many of these older refineries grandfathered from permiting requirements like the New Source Review that refining capacity could be purchased literally at ten cents on the dollar. Why spend the estimated $10 to $20 million and 7 years on trying to obtain a new permit for a new facility when you can buy existing refining capacity at such a low cost? Several major refining companies built themselves from very small operations to some of our largest refining operations by purchasing excess refining capacity on the cheap. Valero and Tesoro for example.
 
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