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The Almighty
No worries Dung, as stated, we know you are just a parrot and are incapable of responding. The version in the House Budget is the same one I linked to.
Admit it Dems: Ryan scares the shit out of you
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No worries Dung, as stated, we know you are just a parrot and are incapable of responding. The version in the House Budget is the same one I linked to.
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The Almighty
Bullshit... the portion of the Budget that passed that deals with Medicare is indeed that plan. The plan you confuse it with is the earlier version of the plan from earlier in 2011. That is what you pretend is in the budget. But that is what your Dem masters told you, so it isn't a shock to hear you parrot their talking points.
If you want to figure out how conservative he is, shouldn't you just look at his voting record? Why look at whether he wins a district he should win (it's R+1)?
Actually, no it isn't. The Ryan-Wyden Plan assumes the Affordable Care Act is unchanged whereas the Ryan Budget repeals it (except that $700 billion in cost savings) and the Ryan-Wyden Plan assumes no changes to Medicaid whereas the Ryan Budget turns it into a shitty block grant program.
I know what's in the 2012 Budget Resolution, the Wyden-Ryan proposal and the 2013 Budget Resolution. While the 2013 version isn't nearly as radical as the 2012 version, it's still a far cry from Ryan-Wyden (which itself is kind of shitty anyway).
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The Almighty
http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf
page 52... is where the 'solution' begins...
Keep reading Darla, Dung etc... oh wait, you don't read the actual info, you only listen to the left wingnut version of what is written.
page 52... is where the 'solution' begins...
Keep reading Darla, Dung etc... oh wait, you don't read the actual info, you only listen to the left wingnut version of what is written.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf
page 52... is where the 'solution' begins...
Keep reading Darla, Dung etc... oh wait, you don't read the actual info, you only listen to the left wingnut version of what is written.
page 52... is where the 'solution' begins...
Keep reading Darla, Dung etc... oh wait, you don't read the actual info, you only listen to the left wingnut version of what is written.
Jesus Christ, you're an idiot. If you linked to that document like eleventy posts ago instead of to the Ryan-Wyden proposal this whole segue into your dumbassery would have been avoided. What you linked to now is the Ryan Plan. What you linked to before is not.
Because of all the pork he's funnelled into the area or because of the Irish Mob?
And he owes a lot to Obama's stimulus...
ive barely read this thread except for the first few posts but I think people tend to overrate how important a VP is for winning the general election. It almost NEVER ends up being a huge factor, go over any election you want. You'll sometimes get the momentary bump in the polls (which amounts to nothing by november) Soometimes you might get a swing state if a VP is from there, but those are rare, especially in recent elections. A VP candidate is more about forming a consistent message and narrative, no one ends up getting like a 5pt push from their running mate.
christiefan915
Catalyst
If only it were true. There hasn't been a radical leftist ideologue in office in my memory.
apple0154
MEOW
Before anything can be fixed one has to realize the problem. It encompasses the western world, not just the US. Jobs have gone to eastern nations with much lower wages. Those jobs are not coming back so a fundamental adjustment has to be made. The question is how is the adjustment (suffering) going to be allocated? Do we throw the population to the wolves and carry on doing things the old, tired, worn out way or take a different approach like, say, make sure everyone has medical coverage whether or not they have a job? Does the government get involved during the transition or do we watch society go to hell?
As Obama said there are lots of willing to work, smart people who don't have jobs. What kind of society will evolve if no one helps them? Are they going to be willing to help anyone in the future if/when they reach a position to do so? Why encourage such a society when we have the resources to help?
That's the fundamental difference between parties.
christiefan915
Catalyst
I don't know enough about his district to answer, for one thing. Also, his district isn't necessarily representative of the country at large.
j-mac
Verified User
"tax cheat" - Provide proof that Romney cheated anything on his taxes...As has been pointed out before he has provided 2010, *2011, and ten years of financial disclosure...That doesn't strike me as someone hiding anything.
* = estimate provided, full return to be released when complete.
"sociopath" - You'll have to explain this one to me...Dictionary.com defines the term as such:
so·ci·o·path [soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-] Show IPA
noun Psychiatry .
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
I don't see any of those traits in Romney, please elaborate.
"plutocratic" - Oh please with the class warfare crap...You are labeling him with that, and quite disingenuously I might add.
"Captain MagicUndies" - Oh nice...Attack the man's religious beliefs...Shall we also have parity in what counts in examining Obama's America hating, racist religion?
Quit sniveling. You expressed your opinion and I expressed mine. You want an explanation for why I have this opinion? Because Romney's a fuckwad.
Anything else?
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Darla
Are you serious????? This plan kills the elderly. I believe it's outright murder. It's certainly premeditated. And you want to claim that it's a lie to say it devastates the elderly because it doesn't touch the current elderly? So it's okay to plot to kill me when I am elderly just because I'm not elderly right now? What fucking mushrooms do you eat before you post this absolutely bullshit? Who buys your bullshit? Do you honestly believe this crap? You're out of your fucking mind. The elderly will always be the elderly. Someone who is 54 today will be elderly when this murders them.
That's point number one. Point number two on the Repuke "dont' worry seniors we'll let you have your shit, we're going to take it from your kids" contrivance is this; we pay for seniors now in exchange for the same in our senior years. Once you tell Gen X, fuck you you ain't getting shit, you are delusional if you believe they aren't going to demand, at the polls, current beneficiaries have their programs slashed. The deal is not, we pay for the old people now and you can pat our faces with shovels when we get old. That is not the social contract. You fools actually are trying to convince people we can overturn the entire social contract via SS and Medicare, and Gen X and younger generations are going to say, oh okay. It's politically untenable. It will not happen. And seniors instinctively know this. There are two reasons they go out and vote against you psychopaths when you start this bullshit:
1) they know younger people will be enraged and refuse to finance their current benefits.
2) they love their children and don't want to murder them.
You are so full of shit, I know you know this stuff and it's beyond disgusting that you are trying to pull this scheme off on the American people. I guess you got yours and fuck everyone else huh SF?
Well, we will see who receives the final fucking.
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Darla
Running from? I didn't even see you ask it. I have no idea I am not familiar with his district nor do I care.
This is the danger of having him on the ticket though. There is zero doubt and can be zero argument from anyone who is not a lying hack that Ryan is so radical that his left wing equivalent would be a Totalitarian Communist. And hacks like you who are rubbing their hands in glee because they are going to personally benefit and don't care whose dead bodies they step over to line their greedy pockets, do manage to move the already well right of center narrative further to the right. It is only by suffering not just defeat, but crushing defeat that you sick bastards will ever step back. And in order to do that the people have to know your real plans. That's why you'e out here lying out your ass, you know what would happen if people understand the voucher proposal. But your problem is they do understand it. And Sf, you really need to get a bigger audience. You ain't changing nothing here. All you are doing is aggravating a few people who know what a horseshit liar you are being like me and DH. That is all you are doing.
j-mac
Verified User
With all due respect apple, because I feel that of the liberal arguers in here you have shown that you're willing to have a conversation, and this is no different in that aspect, so let's take your charges one by one ok?
1. "Before anything can be fixed one has to realize the problem." - My feeling is that at this point the lack of leadership, the obfuscating, the gridlock, the do it my way or be demonized, approach that Obama has been doing for the past 4 years has failed, so we must first change that.
Obama himself said that if he didn't succeed in his first term of putting America back to work and have unemployment down below 5% I believe it was, that his presidency was a "one term proposition" Well, time has come to pay the piper on that one.
2. "It encompasses the western world" - I think most average middle class people are sitting around their kitchen tables today, not worrying about Germany, or France, or even Greece. No, they want some security in their own country first, then they may think about others.
3. "not just the US. Jobs have gone to eastern nations with much lower wages." - You mean like his economic council advisor Immelt did with GE? Or GM is doing boasting about 11 manufacturing plants in China? We can certainly banter hypocrisy back and forth, but unless you give these businesses a reason to be here they will move...And that reason is NOT the highest cost of doing business in the world I can tell ya that.
4. "Those jobs are not coming back so a fundamental adjustment has to be made. The question is how is the adjustment (suffering) going to be allocated?" - Am I reading this right? Are you really saying that this shrunken labor force, and high unemployment, combined with ever growing entitlement society, is Obama's new norm? Please, oh please stick with that one....
Do you really think that the average American that has been out of work for 2 plus years wants to hear that their days of earning a living, and not being reliant on government is over?
5. "Do we throw the population to the wolves and carry on doing things the old, tired, worn out way or take a different approach like, say, make sure everyone has medical coverage whether or not they have a job? Does the government get involved during the transition or do we watch society go to hell? " - So without moving to a redistributive, socialist like model we are doomed to hell? I don't think so.
6. "As Obama said there are lots of willing to work, smart people who don't have jobs. What kind of society will evolve if no one helps them?" - And what has Obama done to help them? make them dependent on big government? That's not help.
7. "Are they going to be willing to help anyone in the future if/when they reach a position to do so?" - Americans historically have been the most generous, most charitable societies in history.
8. "Why encourage such a society when we have the resources to help? " - Borrowing .40 cents of every dollar spent, printing money out of thin air to buy our own debt in the Weimar model, Proposing to rob 2% of the population to then give it out to the bottom 50% to keep them on the demo plantation is not what I call having the resources, I call that selling my kids future for a cheap, cynical move toward enslavement to a failed system.
9. "That's the fundamental difference between parties." - You're right about that...Liberals want a Euro-Socialistic model that is a failure, and Conservatives want a liberty based model that built this country from nothing into the greatest nation the world has ever seen....
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Darla
IT's amazing to me that only a few short years after Bush was crushed when he tried to get his SS privatization scheme by the American people who were way too smart for him, these guys come back and try to sell even more radical shit to the electorate. They really believe that if they only can find the right word. They focus test word after word, it was posted earlier in this thread, and of course we all read about it. Don't call it this, call it that. As if you can spray perfume on a turd and convince everyone they want to fuck it!
The biggest advertising budget in the world can't sell a bad brand. No one wants this shit. Under any name. But they'll keep coming because 400 unimaginably wealthy people will not stop until they steal your SS and your Medicare. And they settle for moving the narrative to the right a little bit at a time. So now you have the "conservative" position as dismantle the new deal and great society, and the "liberal" position is "don't dismantle it reform (cut) it".
There actually is no liberal position. So their advertising budget does have an effect. A big one. We will probably end up having cuts in some grand scheme or other. And we'll breathe a sigh of relief that we are permitted any scraps at all. This is what the inequality and growth of the richest fortunes in this country have given us. We have no liberal narrative saying, hey, no cuts, let's institute single payer, let's have a 55 and over option to buy into Medicare, let's lower the SS age so that young people get jobs, etc etc. I don't know who I have more contempt for, the guys like SF who know full well what they are selling, or the, well, let's call them proles, who go right along with them. Begging to have their SS and Medicare (and Medicaid! if you don't know how many middle class families don't have Alzheimer's riddled grandma and grandpa living with them thanks to Medicaid you're an idiot and deserve what you are going to get) cut so that the criminals on wall street can have their SS dollars and whore-politicians can give yet another tax cut to people who will never live long enough to spend 1/100th of what they already have.
It's a tough call. But both have earned my contempt.
The biggest advertising budget in the world can't sell a bad brand. No one wants this shit. Under any name. But they'll keep coming because 400 unimaginably wealthy people will not stop until they steal your SS and your Medicare. And they settle for moving the narrative to the right a little bit at a time. So now you have the "conservative" position as dismantle the new deal and great society, and the "liberal" position is "don't dismantle it reform (cut) it".
There actually is no liberal position. So their advertising budget does have an effect. A big one. We will probably end up having cuts in some grand scheme or other. And we'll breathe a sigh of relief that we are permitted any scraps at all. This is what the inequality and growth of the richest fortunes in this country have given us. We have no liberal narrative saying, hey, no cuts, let's institute single payer, let's have a 55 and over option to buy into Medicare, let's lower the SS age so that young people get jobs, etc etc. I don't know who I have more contempt for, the guys like SF who know full well what they are selling, or the, well, let's call them proles, who go right along with them. Begging to have their SS and Medicare (and Medicaid! if you don't know how many middle class families don't have Alzheimer's riddled grandma and grandpa living with them thanks to Medicaid you're an idiot and deserve what you are going to get) cut so that the criminals on wall street can have their SS dollars and whore-politicians can give yet another tax cut to people who will never live long enough to spend 1/100th of what they already have.
It's a tough call. But both have earned my contempt.
j-mac
Verified User
cawacko
Well-known member
One of our left-leaning bloggers on the SF Chronicle site claims Medicare as we know it will end...
"For the record, Medicare as we know it will end, whichever party is in power. With medical costs continuing their inexorable rise, and baby boomers now retiring en masse, the program cannot be sustained in its current form. Gold-plated senior care is the source of the nation’s chronic budget deficits. Most of the money is spent at the very end of life (10 percent of beneficiaries in 2009 accounted for 64 percent of program costs), even as young people go without health coverage and working people stagger under the rising expense of diminishing private health insurance that is flattening their wages.
With Ryan’s pick, voters have a choice over what that a changed Medicare might look like: a more private-oriented system that relies on individual shopping and limited dollars to squeeze costs, or a government-led one where the government does the squeezing, mainly on providers. Smart policymakers should take a closer look at examples in Europe that provide universal care at far lower cost with a blended system."
http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05electio...losi-hopes-paul-ryan-makes-her-speaker-again/
"For the record, Medicare as we know it will end, whichever party is in power. With medical costs continuing their inexorable rise, and baby boomers now retiring en masse, the program cannot be sustained in its current form. Gold-plated senior care is the source of the nation’s chronic budget deficits. Most of the money is spent at the very end of life (10 percent of beneficiaries in 2009 accounted for 64 percent of program costs), even as young people go without health coverage and working people stagger under the rising expense of diminishing private health insurance that is flattening their wages.
With Ryan’s pick, voters have a choice over what that a changed Medicare might look like: a more private-oriented system that relies on individual shopping and limited dollars to squeeze costs, or a government-led one where the government does the squeezing, mainly on providers. Smart policymakers should take a closer look at examples in Europe that provide universal care at far lower cost with a blended system."
http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05electio...losi-hopes-paul-ryan-makes-her-speaker-again/